Letter to the Editor of the RYA mag ref Orcas

[Beneteau381]

Sir
My boat is based in Faro, Portugal. There are lots of us there and thereabouts. Grave concerns are being aired about the increasing frequency of attacks on our boats by Orcas, ranging from Gibraltar to La Coruna.

Given the amount of support given to our successful racing team at the Olympics, could not some of that resource now be focussed on why these attacks are happening to us cruisers?

The advice by govts, which doesnt seem to be based on any scientific studies, to switch everything off and drop the sails doesnt appear to be working!

Anecdotal evidence emerging from some Portuguese skippers is that going astern as they approach the rudder deters them.

Could not the RYA commisssion a proper scientific study to find out a position and dateline timeline tied in to the tuna migration route so that we could make a data driven decision on when and where to make passage?

Also a scientific analysis of the attacks, given that myself and others have noticed in the Youtube videos the pack hunting behaviour of them blowing bubble curtains and tail slapping as they circle the stern area of boats, would be helpful?

The advice we are getting so far doesnt seem to be working, only a science driven analysis of this behaviour with science driven advice will perhaps help us cruisers to understand and mitigate the threat.

Rudders are still being munched!
How long before a person is munched?

Yours sincerely
Stuart A Davies

 

[Tranona]

Given the amount of support given to our successful racing team at the Olympics, could not some of that resource now be focussed on why these attacks are happening to us cruisers?

While I agree more research is needed to understand the behaviour of orcas, not sure the RYA is the body to actually undertake this.

There is no connection between the funds for Olympic sailing and the other activities of the RYA. Olympic sailing is funded by government and is administered by the RYA. The funds are ring fenced. So any research would have to be funded from members' subscriptions and the RYA commercial activities.

 

[capnsensible]

In Cadiz, as part of their university, there is an Institute for Marine Science. I would bet a few pesetas that they are well involved in this problem.
A friend of ours graduated with a degree in marine biology from there and is one of the people that work for the dolphin tour company, Dolphin Adventure in Gib.

There are so far, no attacks reported as far as they know, east of Tarifa.

It would be interesting to know the shallowest water that an attack has taken place. I wonder if in orca world, they have a problem with the gazillions of pot buoys all along the Algarve and right round beyond Cadiz?

Must be a worry for you guys that sail around there.

 

[RobbieW]

Personally, I'd rather the RYA funded some scientific research into sea grass growth in the UK. That would help understand whether anchorages need to be managed.

 

[Beneteau381]

While I agree more research is needed to understand the behaviour of orcas, not sure the RYA is the body to actually undertake this.

There is no connection between the funds for Olympic sailing and the other activities of the RYA. Olympic sailing is funded by government and is administered by the RYA. The funds are ring fenced. So any research would have to be funded from members' subscriptions and the RYA commercial activities.

Given that the RYA appears to be racing orientated, with this quarters magazine first 3 pages dominated by pix of the winning teams and the Ian Walker, RYA director of racing, report talking about "we" "we" and "we" one could be forgiven for thinking that the RYA "racing buggers" are "running the show"? As to your view about the RYA role, I, along with thousands of others pay our subs with the expectation that the RYA will look after our "interests" This is a serious matter and I would expect them to look in to this "interest"

 

[SaltIre]

Is it reasonable to demand that the RYA takes on International, as opposed to National, issues?

We are the national governing body for dinghy, yacht and motor cruising, all forms of sail racing, RIBs and sportsboats, windsurfing and personal watercraft and a leading representative for inland waterways cruising
Home | RYA - Royal Yachting Association

 

[Tranona]

Given that the RYA appears to be racing orientated, with this quarters magazine first 3 pages dominated by pix of the winning teams and the Ian Walker, RYA director of racing, report talking about "we" "we" and "we" one could be forgiven for thinking that the RYA "racing buggers" are "running the show"? As to your view about the RYA role, I, along with thousands of others pay our subs with the expectation that the RYA will look after our "interests" This is a serious matter and I would expect them to do so.

It would be surprising if this issue did not highlight the Olympic success. Yes racing is a big part of the RYA as it is the sector that requires a strong framework of training and certification, most of which takes place at club level. You may not see it from where you are, but visit the 2 big clubs in Poole (which have "bred" medal winners) and you will see the huge amount of activity - far greater than the cruising members.

I am not trying to defend the RYA but the "cruising" membership is very diverse and largely passive. How many members of the RYA are actually affected by the Orca issue? They have been very active, along with the CA in attempting to address the potmarker issue, have fought off a number of proposals for legislation (compulsory licencing and registration, regulations on drink, light dues on private yachts) and currently trying to revise rules on carriage of flares. They have a clear policy on "green" issues - even if many of us think they are not sufficiently pro-active.

So, by all means lobby them - but just suggesting that linking your request to the Olympics is not a good idea - they are 2 different and unrelated activities and resources from one do not affect the other.

 

[Beneteau381]

It would be surprising if this issue did not highlight the Olympic success. Yes racing is a big part of the RYA as it is the sector that requires a strong framework of training and certification, most of which takes place at club level. You may not see it from where you are, but visit the 2 big clubs in Poole (which have "bred" medal winners) and you will see the huge amount of activity - far greater than the cruising members.

I am not trying to defend the RYA but the "cruising" membership is very diverse and largely passive. How many members of the RYA are actually affected by the Orca issue? They have been very active, along with the CA in attempting to address the potmarker issue, have fought off a number of proposals for legislation (compulsory licencing and registration, regulations on drink, light dues on private yachts) and currently trying to revise rules on carriage of flares. They have a clear policy on "green" issues - even if many of us think they are not sufficiently pro-active.

So, by all means lobby them - but just suggesting that linking your request to the Olympics is not a good idea - they are 2 different and unrelated activities and resources from one do not affect the other.

I would argue that the Orca issue is as important to the segment of members that cruise the Iberian peninsula as the Olympics is to the racing segment. We are all equal. Perhaps better for you not to reinforce the perception that the racing segment in and around Poole is more important than us cruisers?

 

[webcraft]

In Cadiz, as part of their university, there is an Institute for Marine Science. I would bet a few pesetas that they are well involved in this problem.
A friend of ours graduated with a degree in marine biology from there and is one of the people that work for the dolphin tour company, Dolphin Adventure in Gib.

There are so far, no attacks reported as far as they know, east of Tarifa.

It would be interesting to know the shallowest water that an attack has taken place. I wonder if in orca world, they have a problem with the gazillions of pot buoys all along the Algarve and right round beyond Cadiz?

Must be a worry for you guys that sail around there.

Perhaps Pantanius or one of the big insurance companies could chip in for some research.

- W

 

[Graham376]

Must be a worry for you guys that sail around there.

A new potential worry related to the orcas is someone is said to have been refused an insurance payout for damage caused. No other details, info from a local boatman. I wonder when it will become yet another exclusion in insurance policies.

Many of us based overseas are RYA members, as are a large percentage of those heading in/out of the Med or wider cruising. Although I've previously had some contact trying to obtain advice about potential post Brexit problems, can't say it was satisfactory with non-comital vague answers. I've had a feeling for a long time their main interests are in training income and racing and wider membership just a cash cow.

 

[capnsensible]

Perhaps Pantanius or one of the big insurance companies could chip in for some research.

- W

Mmm. Not sure they would be interested. My feeling is it needs government wonga behind it. At the slightest hint it may affect Spanish fishermen, bet that would happen....if it isn't already.

 

[SaltIre]

Mmm. Not sure they would be interested. My feeling is it needs government wonga behind it. At the slightest hint it may affect Spanish fishermen, bet that would happen....if it isn't already.

Maybe the EU are the body to write to.

 

[Tranona]

I would argue that the Orca issue is as important to the segment of members that cruise the Iberian peninsula as the Olympics is to the racing segment. We are all equal. Perhaps better for you not to reinforce the perception that the racing segment in and around Poole is more important than us cruisers?

You really do jump to conclusions about what I think. I was merely illustrating that racing is a significant part of the whole yachting scene and one that requires national organisation to be successful, compared with cruising where the requirement of formal organisation is less, and participants less active in a collective way. You could argue that for cruisers one of the attractions is that it is escape from formal organisation.

Of course we are all equal as individuals, but this particularly issue only affects a tiny number of members. On the one hand you are complaining about the high level of resources devoted to the interests of a majority of members and on the other the lack of resources devoted to the supposed interests of a tiny minority. If you think the issue is worthy of greater attention by the RYA then suggest you get together with other like minded members and submit a petition. Don't think switching resources from a majority activity to that of an unquantified minority would go down well in a democratic member organisation, though.

 

[Beneteau381]

You really do jump to conclusions about what I think. I was merely illustrating that racing is a significant part of the whole yachting scene and one that requires national organisation to be successful, compared with cruising where the requirement of formal organisation is less, and participants less active in a collective way. You could argue that for cruisers one of the attractions is that it is escape from formal organisation.

Of course we are all equal as individuals, but this particularly issue only affects a tiny number of members. On the one hand you are complaining about the high level of resources devoted to the interests of a majority of members and on the other the lack of resources devoted to the supposed interests of a tiny minority. If you think the issue is worthy of greater attention by the RYA then suggest you get together with other like minded members and submit a petition. Don't think switching resources from a majority activity to that of an unquantified minority would go down well in a democratic member organisation, though.

Sigh, where is the evidence that racers are in the majority and we cruisers are an unquantified minority?
On second thoughts, dont bother answering. Im putting you on ignore.

 

[Beneteau381]

Mmm. Not sure they would be interested. My feeling is it needs government wonga behind it. At the slightest hint it may affect Spanish fishermen, bet that would happen....if it isn't already.

Unsubstantiated reports coming through that fishermen are guarding their fishtraps by using flares?
What are peoples thoughts on more proactive interactions as in bags of pepper at blowholes?

 

[SaltIre]

Sigh, where is the evidence that racers are in the majority and we cruisers are an unquantified minority?
On second thoughts, dont bother answering. Im putting you on ignore.

Worry not Tranona. It is a tactic typically employed when an argument isn't being won.

 

[SaltIre]

Unsubstantiated reports coming through that fishermen are guarding their fishtraps by using flares?
What are peoples thoughts on more proactive interactions as in bags of pepper at blowholes?

Well it's certainly not to be sneezed at.

 

[Tranona]

Sigh, where is the evidence that racers are in the majority and we cruisers are an unquantified minority?
On second thoughts, dont bother answering. Im putting you on ignore.

Just what are you expecting the RYA to do? These incidents occur in the territorial waters of Spain and Portugal or in international waters. Authorities in those states have investigated and have taken action to reduce the number of incidents by advising boaters to stay away from the areas where the Orcas are most active. Only a tiny number of UK yachtsmen according to the reports have actually experienced difficulties.

You protest too much - and willfully misread what I write. So I suggest if you want to be taken seriously you write a research proposal laying out what the problem is, quantify the impact on UK boaters eg how many boats have been damaged, people killed or injured, amount of insurance claims; what you want to find out about the behaviour of Orcas in relation to yachts which is not already known and why you think it important that the RYA funds this research on behalf of all its members.

Much more sensible than discussing whether putting flares or pepper down the blowholes of protected living creatures is an effective method of changing their alleged behaviour towards poor defenceless British yachties which is forcing them to stay in port for fear of having their rudders chewed if they go to sea.

 

[chrishscorp]

I read something on Monday that these Orcas are now attacking on average a boat a day and they have managed to capsize an 8 Meter boat though the occupants were ok.

 

[Beneteau381]

I read something on Monday that these Orcas are now attacking on average a boat a day and they have managed to capsize an 8 Meter boat though the occupants were ok.

Could you post a link on the article about the 8 mtr boat please? This looks like an attempt to explain the behaviour and could be the basis for some more research 'I've never seen or heard of attacks': scientists baffled by orcas harassing boats