Legal position wrt requirement to carry flares

[nigelmercier]

I know getting rid of the old one can be a PITA...

Here's an idea. Require that manufacturers add a removable seal to all flares, such that the insides can be flooded with water and rendered harmless.

 

[jimbaerselman]

The situation is that other countires "COULD" require you to meet their requirements, but evidence (such as 100's of UK registered boats kept permanently in France and Portugal, and no reports of any systematic inspections or sanctions) suggest they DON'T. In most countries they would require a specific law to apply any penalties, and again there is no evidence that such laws exist.

There are several reports of British registered leisure craft sailing through Portuguese waters being boarded from RIBS to be inspected. Equipments have been checked against lists for class 1 vessels. Too few flares and lack of a liferaft have been pointed out by the (I think, Coast guard) officers as infringements of Portuguese Class 1 requirements. All boats were told to pay lighthouse dues at their next port of call.

I've had one (unrelated) report that a boat was not permitted to continue until correct inventory was aboard, but I've been unable to confirm this was a UK flag vessel. I've had no reports of fines to British vessels.

Incidentally, the class of vessel is determined by its CE plate - if it is young enough to have one. Not by where it goes.

Although most countries do not impose their own equipment requirements on visiting leisure vessels, there have been past attempts to do so. New Zealand became over zealous for a period . . . but then withdrew after some court challenges. Greece has never bothered foreign registered boats, except for insisting that all boats which sail their waters have third party insurance to certain standards.

 

[Tranona]

There are several reports of British registered leisure craft sailing through Portuguese waters being boarded from RIBS to be inspected. Equipments have been checked against lists for class 1 vessels. Too few flares and lack of a liferaft have been pointed out by the (I think, Coast guard) officers as infringements of Portuguese Class 1 requirements. All boats were told to pay lighthouse dues at their next port of call.

I've had one (unrelated) report that a boat was not permitted to continue until correct inventory was aboard, but I've been unable to confirm this was a UK flag vessel. I've had no reports of fines to British vessels.

Incidentally, the class of vessel is determined by its CE plate - if it is young enough to have one. Not by where it goes.

Although most countries do not impose their own equipment requirements on visiting leisure vessels, there have been past attempts to do so. New Zealand became over zealous for a period . . . but then withdrew after some court challenges. Greece has never bothered foreign registered boats, except for insisting that all boats which sail their waters have third party insurance to certain standards.

Think that is the whole point - there seems to be no recorded cases of any sanctions being applied - and given the number of UK boats in Portugal, that suggests it is not an official policy. Light Dues and other taxes are a different issue to equipment and manning.

Don't think you are right about the class being determined by the CE plate - it is not in France. The classification pre dates RCD and is determined by the distance from shore. What is not clear is how rigorously this is enforced (on French registered vessels) - probably not given the number of small French boats you see elsewhere.

Somewhere I have the latest French requirements - will see if I can find a reference. - now found
<http://www.developpement-durable.gouv.fr/IMG/pdf/DGITM_equipement_de_securite_navires_de_plaisance_4p_web.pdf>

 

[Leonidas]

[. Greece has never bothered foreign registered boats, except for insisting that all boats which sail their waters have third party insurance to certain standards.[/QUOTE]

This may be true for most of the time , but occasionally when the Coast Guard gets involved (even for totally unrelated issues) one may expect a full safety equipment audit. I know from personal experience !

 

[DownWest]

Am I right in thinking that French boats under about 25 feet are or were required to carry a large oar for sculling over the stern?

Pete

Think that is long gone (if it existed) It certainly is not in my guide to what you need. Mostly used by trad/cheap owners. Much lighter than an outboard.....Less smelly too, not counting the sweat :<))

 

[mihtjel]

Your "understanding" is incorrect. There are specific equipment requirements for French registered vessels (and Italian, Spanish, Portuguese and no doubt others) based on a system of categories defined by area of operation. However, they do not apply to visiting yachts.

Tranona, your interpretation appears to rely on article 21 section 2 of UNCLOS being extended beyond innocent passage seen as passage into and out of a country's territorial waters and ports, and onto passage between ports within a country; an interpretation certainly not shared by a number of nations (I have previously mentioned how it's certainly not how the Danish Maritime Authority views the subject).

I would suggest that the view on this subject of the nation visited is queried before any decision is taken on whether safety equipment requirements apply or not for cruising within the local waters.

 

[affinite]

That reminds me (Mini confessional follows)

Here's an idea. Require that manufacturers add a removable seal to all flares, such that the insides can be flooded with water and rendered harmless.

I read somewhere that there is no such thing as a flares disposal facility in Greece (Other than Easter weekend in Chios !) and that the recommended disposal method for out of date flares was drop them overboard well offshore. So last time I was "well offshore" with the boat happily cruising on autopilot through the Cyclades, I sat head down in the cockpit sorting through my flare box and throwing the expired ones overboard one by one. I looked back after chucking about half a dozen of them overboard to see a neat little line of the burgers bobbing about in my wake and streching back about 1/2 mile !!

Oh what a "Silly Billy" I said to my self as I turned about to go back and retrieve them - (must get a bag and a big rock next time)

No - I didnt want to turn this into a flares disposal thread - Nigels post just reminded me of this embarrasing lapse in concentration/brain activity.

 

[Leonidas]

I read somewhere that there is no such thing as a flares disposal facility in Greece (Other than Easter weekend in Chios !) and that the recommended disposal method for out of date flares was drop them overboard well offshore. QUOTE]

I was also told once by a chandler that their usual disposal method is the put them in a bucket full of water for about three weeks and then dump them in the municipal skip.! I've never tried it myself, but so far I have never seen a rubbish truck driving around in an orange cloud either. Maybe 3 weeks in the brine is enough to render them "inert" ?????

 

[prv]

Think that is long gone (if it existed)

Well, I've seen small Jeanneaus with a rowlock fitting at the stern, and I think I read in one of my (mostly older) cruising books that "all French yachtsmen carry a sweep". So I think it did exist, but can believe that it no longer does.

Pete

 

[2Tizwoz]

The nearest skip may not be the best choice. http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=247596

 

[Mark-1]

As I understand it, you're OK in UK waters without flares, but it's been a law long since that in French waters for instance, if one gets the wrong official they can penalise for out of date flares let alone not having any - and other safety kit on their list OOD or absent.

Apparently this comes from the RYA magazine:

 

[Tranona]

That is at least 2 years old and there does not seem to have been any further reports.