LED Flares - Expensive?

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goeasy123

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Why are LED flares, like Odeo, so expensive at circa £100? I can buy a torch for a tenner of ebay with roughly the same components in it.

And will someone (probably Chinese) catch on and put something on AliExpress for much less.
 
Andy Todd said:
Why are LED flares, like Odeo, so expensive at circa £100? I can buy a torch for a tenner of ebay with roughly the same components in it.

And will someone (probably Chinese) catch on and put something on AliExpress for much less.
Click to expand...

Agree, too expensive. My opinion is that, until they become a universally recognisable, approved, distress signal they are only useful for highlighting you position to a rescuer who is already on their way to you and for that a £10 torch will do just fine.

Www.solocoastalsailing.co.uk
 
In the US they use burning flares to close a lane on highway for accidents. How this is a good idea I have no idea.

However, these lights are doing the same thing..

But they don't need to be visible 3 miles out like you'd want a hh flare to be.

--
LED flare price has been falling. Now about £80.

How much is a pyro pack? That is your price point they are pitched at.

It may be brighter than a standard torch, and red rather than white. A torch is sellable to wide audiences. A hh flare... Tiny numbers.

It's certainly waterproof.
 
I would be more worried that no one knows what they are compared to conventional flares.

I also never got the highway flares despite living here. When I was a paramedic I remember a police officer friend threatening to take someone to jail for trying to light up a cigarette when petrol was leaking from a car.

W.
 
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Plum said:
Agree, too expensive. My opinion is that, until they become a universally recognisable, approved, distress signal they are only useful for highlighting you position to a rescuer who is already on their way to you and for that a £10 torch will do just fine.

Www.solocoastalsailing.co.uk
Click to expand...
They never will become universally recognisable, or approved, because they are a woefully poor way of signalling for help, in various ways.
The fact that proper flares emit heat is a minor, and easily manageable, extra risk compared to their overwhelming benefits.
Yes a torch is just as good, or not, as an LED "flare" (sic) for pinpointing your position.
A hand-held flare, or orange smoke, is 100 times better though.
 
Ohlin Karcher said:
They never will become universally recognisable, or approved, because they are a woefully poor way of signalling for help, in various ways.
The fact that proper flares emit heat is a minor, and easily manageable, extra risk compared to their overwhelming benefits.
Yes a torch is just as good, or not, as an LED "flare" (sic) for pinpointing your position.
A hand-held flare, or orange smoke, is 100 times better though.
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Absolutely! A tiny LED is not going to attract much attention.

I have been working on a high-power LED strobe, the idea being that it can be used when you know rescue is on its way, they just need to be able to locate you ... a pyro flare lasts only a short time, an LED strobe could be on for hours. It has full 360 degree coverage, and crucially a top mounted LED for visibility from the air.

It could also be useful as a "conspicuity aid" in low vis (eg fog) ...

It would be interesting to conduct a test at some reasonable distance with a hand held pyro flare, an LED flare, a torch and my beacon of doom ... I'm reasonably convinced ti will be no worse than the hand flare due to the high puls power.
 
Ohlin Karcher said:
They never will become universally recognisable, or approved, because they are a woefully poor way of signalling for help, in various ways.
The fact that proper flares emit heat is a minor, and easily manageable, extra risk compared to their overwhelming benefits.
Yes a torch is just as good, or not, as an LED "flare" (sic) for pinpointing your position.
A hand-held flare, or orange smoke, is 100 times better though.
Click to expand...


Agree 110% however I do have an aircrew strobe on my old fight suit that I'm sure wok,d be seen miles away but not something that would be seen as a distress signal. A military crew looking for me would know what it was but I'm pretty sure the general public wood see it as a bouy or something.

W.
 
Here you go, they are coming down in price:

https://www.cactusnav.com/odeo-dist...K9_RQYGwpeMajtyjs_FGJsaVe0Rq-X5xoC6XgQAvD_BwE

I bought one last year. They are a niche product so costing double a good diving torch is not too baffling. They stay in your pocket so in the dinghy, paddleboarding, hiking or diving it's there - tough, waterproof and safe.. The only reasonably comparable pyrotechnic alternative, that I am aware of, are Mini Flares:

https://www.gaelforcemarine.co.uk/e...-MK8-Personal-Distress-Signal-Kit/m-2508.aspx

I have used these as well but their endurance is limited and I am tired of stashing out of date fireworks and wondering what to do with them. The Odeo has a user replaceable battery and should have a 20+ year life, when it can be recycled.

It's a winner for me.

Almost forgot, the main point is they do a slightly different job to flares so direct comparisons are shaky.
 
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rszemeti: You're right in the money for me. My Yachtmaster instructor was an ex SAR helicopter pilot. He says the only pyro that still has any purpose is the day smoke. Flares do not last long enough. He wanted a white strobe for follow in. Hence PilotWolk's old flight suit. However, these are strictly speaking illegal for civi use.... particularly if used as a "conspicuity aid".

I want rid of pyro's because, with modern tech and the global system they increase overall risk, they're a pain in the arse to maintain (buy and get rid of) and they are an ongoing expense better spent on more useful safety gear.

doug748: you beg the question why doesn't someone produce a torch with built in flare functionality. This is almost it... https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Waterpro...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
 
Andy Todd said:
....
doug748: you beg the question why doesn't someone produce a torch with built in flare functionality. This is almost it... https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Waterpro...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
Click to expand...


An excellent idea as, going ashore at night, I now carry a good torch + the LED thingy.

Personally, I would not buy anything aluminium or with the dammed rubber, heel switch which always seems to fail for me.
I would buy a quality item developed for the job though. Not because I am prissy about dying but am sick of throwing away cheap Chinese flashlights.
 
tudorsailor said:
PBO did a comparison in 2016

https://www.pbo.co.uk/gear/led-laser-flares-tested-36341

TS
Click to expand...

Yes, I saw that. Absolutely useless test. Not worth the electrons it was written with.

What I actually wanted to see was at a good comparison at something like 5 miles, which was brighter, or even visible ... an real flare or the laser ... individual tests at short range, where the distressed person can aim at the rescuer prove nothing.
 
I've one of these and it's phenomenally bright! And also 3 x Epirbs on board.

When my pyrotechnical flares expire next summer, I probably won't bother renewing them.

s-l1600.jpg
 
Molteni said:
I've one of these and it's phenomenally bright! And also 3 x Epirbs on board.

When my pyrotechnical flares expire next summer, I probably won't bother renewing them.

View attachment 81689
Click to expand...
To potential 999-dialers on the cliffs walking their dog, it's just another winking light. One at sea level, so as bad as it gets for visible range. If it launched itself to 300m with a loud whhooshing noise, and descended on a parachute, emitting unambiguous red light and smoke, that would be a step in the right direction.
EPIRBS get a relatively slow response ( I agree that more than one may reduce delay searching databases before scrambling the helo etc)
So, pyros are better at everything. If you don't like them, it is your call, of course, but it may compromise rescue.
 
rszemeti said:
Absolutely! A tiny LED is not going to attract much attention.

I have been working on a high-power LED strobe, the idea being that it can be used when you know rescue is on its way, they just need to be able to locate you ... a pyro flare lasts only a short time, an LED strobe could be on for hours. It has full 360 degree coverage, and crucially a top mounted LED for visibility from the air.

It could also be useful as a "conspicuity aid" in low vis (eg fog) ...

It would be interesting to conduct a test at some reasonable distance with a hand held pyro flare, an LED flare, a torch and my beacon of doom ... I'm reasonably convinced ti will be no worse than the hand flare due to the high puls power.
Click to expand...

Take a look at https://www.narkedat90.com/strobe-pathfinder-strobe-gen-4.html
 
Ohlin Karcher said:
To potential 999-dialers on the cliffs walking their dog, it's just another winking light. One at sea level, so as bad as it gets for visible range. If it launched itself to 300m with a loud whhooshing noise, and descended on a parachute, emitting unambiguous red light and smoke, that would be a step in the right direction.
EPIRBS get a relatively slow response ( I agree that more than one may reduce delay searching databases before scrambling the helo etc)
So, pyros are better at everything. If you don't like them, it is your call, of course, but it may compromise rescue.
Click to expand...
+1

Pyrotecnics used at the right time are brilliant. Most people are not trained in how and when to use them.

Does anybody know the current time that it takes and EPIRB signal to get to Falmouth CG? Last I read it was 90 mins, but dependant on when a satellite overflew you. Things do change.
 
Here is a question. Torches, LED flares and so on are all designed to work at night. And yet I wonder what proportion of time purchasers of electric alternatives to pyros actually sail at night?

So why still carry flares? In an emergency, we need to attract the attention of rescuers and aid them in locating us. EPIRBs, PLBs and DSC radios all have pros and cons, as of course do para flares. 406MHz beacons with GPS offer a reliable means of raising the alarm to a dedicated desk in Fareham, a no brainier, but we might also want to grab the attention of other nearby boaters who might be able to offer more timely assistance. Hence DSC and flares.
Why do most sailers need help? I wonder what the statistics are but I reckon MOB, and medical emergencies out number wrecking or sinking at night. So if we are to want the most effective locating aid we need to look at why we are likely to need it. So if I fall over board during the day I am going to want to be able to raise the alarm (PLB and or AIS beacon) and then help whoever is coming to find me cover the last few 100m. By day a smoke is far and away the best. If someone onboard suffers a heart attack either in an anchorage or in a busy seaway by day, a mayday, DSC and 406MHz beacon to raise the alarm, a smoke to get eyes on us quickly when help arrives over the horizon.

By night things are different -smoke is less useful so some sort of light. Again when am I going to need help? Medical emergency at anchor, dragging an anchor to a leeshore? Once again DSC (providing a line of sight to a receiver), satellite or if in a populated area a para flare might be far more effective than waving a red flashing torch. MOB rescue at night was demonstrated in the channel recently when a life was saved by a helicopter spotting the life jacket light. I am guessing night vision equipment made a substantial difference in locating the survivor. Some sort of floating electrical light would be useful in MOB situations at night as it can be switched on before you get too cold and lose the dexterity to use it or a pyro. But I would want to have confidence a led flare is visible to modern night vision systems before swapping my Jotun (non led) strobe light for one.

What I am trying to say is this: we need to carefully consider why we might need to raise the alarm, what situation we might be in, when it is most likely happen and therefore what kit we might want to invest in.
 
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