Leaking toilets

[scrumblebunny]

Our SL400 toilet leaks! If the seacock that lets in the clean seawater is open and water is pumped into the bowl water leaks form the gubins at the back of the toilet. If the same seacock is shut, and the contents of the loo pumped out there are no leakages. It seems to me that it must be something to do with the inlet part of the mechanism.( I'm not a rocket scientist). We have studied the parts diagram of the loo and there are so many bits and pieces it's difficult to know where to start. Has anyone had a similar experience? Thank you.

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[Guest]

Sounds like one for Headmistress !!

Go for it !!

<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ...
Bilge Keelers get up further ! I came - cos they said was FREE Guinness !
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[penfold]

I would start by getting a service pack and fitting it; it might well be you've just got a worn 'O' ring or crumbly gasket. Make sure you smear lashings of lovely silicone grease on them all, and it wouldn't be right if you didn't get it in your hair and on your elbow too (like I did, good jersey too, grrr!). Change the hoses while you're at it as well; let's face it, you'll never get them off without attacking them with a sharp knife (careful children!). Those of a nervous disposition may wish to leave the hoses alone until the boat's ashore for winter.

However, if you don't have the confidence and ability to service the cludge, don't pay someone else to do it because it will probably cost more than the price of installing a new one; just get the new dunny and be done with it.

cheers,
david

<hr width=100% size=1>It's a mother beautiful bridge, and it's gonna be there!

 

[pvb]

Time for a change?

Might be cheaper in the long run to replace the whole thing, because SL400 spares are pricey and not too readily available. For around £120 you can get a new Jabsco toilet which is reliable and easy to service.

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[HeadMistress]

I wouldn\'t!

Replacing that toilet with a Jabsco because the spares for the S/L cost almost as much as the Jabsco would be tantamount to replacing a Rolls Royce with a Yugo because repairs to the Rolls cost almost as much as the Yugo.

Scrumberry, you're right that the problem is in the intake plumbing. I don't have drawings for the S/L 400 (one of the reasons I accepted Ian's invitation to join you was to better acquaint myself with toilets that aren't commonly seen in the US)...if someone could point me to a website that has it, or email them to me, I can prob'ly pin down the source of the leak for you.

But just as a WAG, I suspect the spud that connects the intake hose to the bowl (or the pump...I'm unclear as to exactly where the leak is) may be cracked. I'll know better after I've seen a drawing.

Btw...my English as you speak it is a bit shakey...we haven't spoken it for years here...can you describe what you mean by "gubins?"

<hr width=100% size=1>Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987

 

[pvb]

Hey Peggie!

Like many of us UK boaters, I have a lot of respect for the advice you've so freely posted over the years. But your Rolls Royce analogy is maybe a little over the top. Why do you have such a low opinion of Jabsco toilets? The SL400 was an OK product in its day, but it was never ever in the RR category of marine toilets. As with many products, there eventually comes a time to accept that replacement is an economically-sensible option.

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[scrumblebunny]

Re: I wouldn\'t!

I have posted the toilet diagram and parts list on a web site, I hope this is of use. The loo appears to be leaking around item 14 on the diagram... the water wells up around it. See www.botheras.freeserve.co.uk/diagram.pdf and www.botheras.freeserve.co.uk/parts.pdf.
'Gubins' ..... small gadets and associated paraphernalia etc......Thanks for your help.
Cheers

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[HeadMistress]

Re: Hey Peggie!

I admit comparing it to a Rolls is a bit over the top...perhaps a Jaguar would be closer.
My point was, all marine toilets are not created equal...there's wide range of quality,and to a certain extent you do get what you pay for. Replacing a good quality piece of equipment with the cheapest simply because parts for the better equipment cost almost as much as a new cheapy doesn't make good economic sense...because the repaired item is likely to go 2-5 as long without needing another repair as the cheap item will last.

And Jabsco is the cheapest--which is why it's the choice of so many OEMs--and the least durable...average lifespan is only about 5-7 years, compared to 20 or even longer for an S/L or a Blake. It's almost as cheap to replace the whole thing as it is to repair it...even rebuild kits are about half the price of new one. Older ones seem to have been built a bit better...but the ones built in the last 10 years have a very high failure rate for parts that aren't in the rebuild kit, especially wet/dry valves. I also hear of many pump housings that crack if bolts are even slightly over-tightened... or even when used by an over-weight brother in law.

So while there can come a time when replacement is the only option, I don't think that's the case here. But even when replacement does make sense, better to go with something that, with only minimal maintenance, can give you at least 10-15 years of trouble-free service, not just 2-5 at best.

<hr width=100% size=1>Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987

 

[webcraft]

Re: Hey Peggie!

May I just add my tuppenceworth to advise you to not, under any circumstances, buy the cheapie £70 bog from Compass?

Having lovingly redesigned the heads to take this beast, imagine our disappointment when the pump began to stiffen up after only two days. By the end of a two week trip the damn thing was virtually unuseable, and both SWMBO and I had identical callusses on our pumping hands which took three weeks to fade.

After a LOT of hassle and about 3 weeks Compass sent a new pump unit. I duly fitted it, to find that after two days use it too began to stiffen up, the action became jerky and black grease came out round the O-ring the pump handle goes through.

I am able to keep this going in almost acceptable fashion provided I pour a tablespoon of veg oil down it every day. I must admit I had always thought that once a season was a reasonable oiling frequency.

I would be interested to know which is the smoothest operating most reliable heads, as this one is unlikely to survive next season.

- Nick


<hr width=100% size=1><font size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.bluemoment.com>http://www.bluemoment.com</A></font size=1>

 

[andyball]

Re: Hey Peggie!

You're right about the fragile pump housings....also I think there was a batch where the pilot holes for the self-tapping screws that secure the top of the pump were drilled too small(well I had two like it, & jabsco replaced without a murmur, didn't even want the old one back (full marks there Jabsco); the screws bite & seem to tighten up, but don't feel quite right, since they've bound in the holes. Of course then the joint leaks & if you're unlucky a crack in the "post" where the screw goes or even breaking off the post.

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[HeadMistress]

Re: Hey Peggie!

If pouring vegetable oil down it helps, it sounds as if your problem may just be due to the wrong type of grease used in the pump...it certainly shouldn't be black! You may not want to, but taking it apart and removing that grease, then replacing it with thick teflon grease--which is what should have been used in it--should solve the problem. Alternatively you could ask them what grease they used and tell them to send you one that has none...that you'll lube it yourself. It's simple to do in most toilets...shouldn't even require taking the pump apart, just opening up the housing to squirt it in, pump a few times to spread it...close it up again.

But if you're determined to replace.... Are Raritan toilets sold in the UK? Here, their PH II has been rated the best manual toilet (avoid the electric version, though!) under $500 for decades--it sells here at discount for around $250. The PHC is the "compact" version, about 20% cheaper...same pump, but on a compact base, allowing it to fit in smaller heads. Durability: 15-20 years minimum with only minimal maintenance--keep it lubricated, rebuild about every 5 years. Lever action pump that allows it to "swallow" what would choke cheaper toilets. You'll find it on the Raritan website at http://www.raritaneng.com

<hr width=100% size=1>Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987

 

[pvb]

Jabsco durability...

My Jabsco is over 13 years old and has been virtually trouble-free. I'm confident that there are much better-engineered toilets around, but Jabsco toilets are pretty acceptable.

Guess we should agree to differ! And sorry to hear about your brother-in-law!!

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[HeadMistress]

Re: Jabsco durability...

There are exceptions to everything...and occasionally I do hear from someone who's gotten 10 years or more of trouble-free service from a Jabsco...most likely because it IS that old. Otoh, I also occasionally hear from someone who's had nothing BUT trouble with a much higher quality toilet. But they are exceptions.

I freely admit to being strongly opinionated...however, not just arbitrarily so, but based on my own experiences as a dealer/distributor and those of literally thousands of boat owners over the last couple of decades. It's certainly not mfrs who report common problems and failures with their equipment...it's the people who use it. Mfrs ARE quick to extoll the virtues of their products...but again, it's the people who use and repair that equipment who either confirm or deny the validy of such claims. And it's that evidence and experience on which I base my opinions.

Btw...that was someone else's brother in law...I don't have one.

<hr width=100% size=1>Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987

 

[pvb]

Just joshing...

...about the brother-in-law!

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[Seal_surfer]

I have had a similar problem to overcome with my aged SL400 this season. Leakage was from the operating spindle (part 19 on http://www.botheras.freeserve.co.uk/diagram.pdf) where it should be sealed by an "O" ring (part No. 43) - but it wasn't!!

If this is where your leak is occuring, the fix is very cheap - replace the O ring for a few pence (plus silicon grease). Simply:

Remove the pump handle (after wrestling out the split pins)

Unscrew the gland nut (avoid excessive force/support plastic body)

Remove the above with spindle/spring assembly to a workshop (a few cupfuls of water may leak out)

Slightly compress spring in vice and punch out roll pin to free spring/washer

Extract rubber O ring and take to motor spares or chandlers counter to match up (Note that the ring was originally circular cross section but will have a flat worn on inside and possibly stretched slightly)

Reassemble after cleaning shaft - use copious silicon grease

Problem solved.





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[pvb]

PS...

You know that Jaguars are made by Ford.

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[rickwat]

Sure it\'s not item 24

I have the SL401 (same workings as 400 but bigger bowl I think) which I thought kept leaking from the plastic cover - 14 in your diag - but was in fact coming down from where pipe(24) goes into back of bowl. With the flexing of the pump body when working the handle the pipe was slightly loose and water was running down and dripping around 14. The pipe only seems to be a push fit and I cured it for a while by refitting with silicon sealant around the pipe. Unfortunately there seems to be lot of flexing in the pump body when operating the handle on mine and for a cure( to date) I got a length of convoluted rubber hose from Partco and found a small piece of plastic pipe to push inside the end to hold the end rigid.

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[HeadMistress]

Help please?

I really need to see the drawing. Can anyone point me toward a website or attach it to an email, please?

<hr width=100% size=1>Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987

 

[rickwat]

Re: Help please?

See scrumblebunny's earlier post for his/her website. The days are numbered for my toilet but it must know and has been trouble free all summer.

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[TheBoatman]

Re: I wouldn\'t!

Peggy
Gubbins = all those bits that are contained within a mechanical object. The stuff that makes it work?

I.e. an engine, the gubbins bit, are are what are inside (out of veiw) pistons, rings, crankshaft, oil pumps etc.

Hope this helps<s>

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