Latitude and Longitude - no more?

[newtothis]

Not sure that is a directly relevant question in that form.
For example, as well as the two main ships plotters, I carry a minimum of 3 other mobile devices with GPS and fully UKHO raster charts installed (for £25). I also carry a mobile battery booster - mainly for when travelling to/from boat, but I calculated when doing a trans-Atlantic, I could get a daily fix from my mobile phone using the battery booster, even if the phone was flat when disaster happened to the ships electronics. Plus enough left to run hourly for the final approach. (I also carry paper charts for my main cruising grounds)
I suspect most other (wise) skippers have a multiplicity of backup options. So “failure of electrics” is zero concern for navigation.

The real disaster scenario is if Putin or a major solar flare wipes out the GNSS (posh name for GPS and its equivalents) signal entirely. Then all the GPS devices are down. Or a lightning strike which wipes out all electronics on board (for which I try to mitigate by putting 2 mobile devices in the oven as a hoped for Faradays Cage, effectiveness fortunately not tested in practice).

I've got a little portable solar panel with USB output, and a phone battery pack with a built-in solar charger that can also be charged from the fold up panel.
There are even wind-up USB chargers if you only sail at night.
I can't see total loss of power to the point you can't charge a tablet or phone being hugely likely.
And if GPS goes down completely, there are probably going to be bigger issues to deal with.

 

[Juan Twothree]

The problem w3w is intended to address is keeping marketing and PR people in a job. Awful system and sad to hear the CG have been duped.

W3W is no substitute for lat and long if you're on a boat, but for someone on the beach making a 999 call to the CG, it can be very useful.

Far better than asking the caller to describe what they can see around them, to try and get some sort of clue as to where they are.

Been there, done that.

 

[finestgreen]

W3W is no substitute for lat and long if you're on a boat, but for someone on the beach making a 999 call to the CG, it can be very useful.

Far better than asking the caller to describe what they can see around them, to try and get some sort of clue as to where they are.

Been there, done that.

Useful until it's not!

What 3 Words is a Mess – Our opinion is that the proprietary W3W serivce is unhelpful and dangerous. This site is not affiliate with What3Words. "W3W" is a trademark of What3Words Ltd

 

[Sandy]

I have a phone, stand-alone plotter and a HH gps on my little yacht so I have a few independent ways of getting a gps fix but on the rare occasion I feel the need to keep a detailed paper log when solo I find the quickest method with least time away from the helm is time speed and bearing from the cockpit dials and the lat/Long from the vhf display. One line on a sheet of paper and I have everything I need for a fix and DR if everything fails.
And if someone finds my boat looking like the Mary Celeste, they can estimate where to find my body, and not call me a careless idiot on the evening news

I do like Concertos idea of a photo, quicker but my phone battery life is rubbish

As another solo sailor I wonder how much time you spend at the helm.

How do you cook, eat, doze and pee? Is this all done on while gripping the tiller/wheel for dear life?

 

[AntarcticPilot]

W3W is no substitute for lat and long if you're on a boat, but for someone on the beach making a 999 call to the CG, it can be very useful.

Far better than asking the caller to describe what they can see around them, to try and get some sort of clue as to where they are.

Been there, done that.

Anyone with a device that can run W3W has a device that can give latitude and longitude.

W3W depends on the continued existence of a single company. And we all know how stable IT companies are - see Twitter! Their algorithm and dictionary are not publicly available, so any failure of the company will bring the whole thing down. It's not enormously clever, and with a bit of research I'm sure most GIS professionals could come up with a look alike (tesselation schemes are commonplace in geographic data management, and there are a few satirical sites that do the same thing with a dictionary like the Profanisaurus), but the specific choices and word lists are proprietary. I can just about see it's use in on-shore emergencies in locations where a post code is not available, but at sea latitude and longitude rule. But I won't support it's use until both algorithm and word list are in the public domain - and then only maybe!

 

[Slowboat35]

I don't for a moment believe that SAR helos need a grid reference. They may have the ability to convert OS Grid to Lat and Long for land rescues where hikers/mountaineers provide it and it may well be of use to an observer/crew working from a OS topogrphic overlay but it would be totally useless offshore as it is impossible for either the caller to provide one or the responder to find it.
All aircraft GPS systems fundamentally operate on Lat/Long. I daresay a W3W interface is incorporated too these days.

 

[finestgreen]

Anyone with a device that can run W3W has a device that can give latitude and longitude.

W3W depends on the continued existence of a single company. And we all know how stable IT companies are - see Twitter! Their algorithm and dictionary are not publicly available, so any failure of the company will bring the whole thing down. It's not enormously clever, and with a bit of research I'm sure most GIS professionals could come up with a look alike (tesselation schemes are commonplace in geographic data management, and there are a few satirical sites that do the same thing with a dictionary like the Profanisaurus), but the specific choices and word lists are proprietary. I can just about see it's use in on-shore emergencies in locations where a post code is not available, but at sea latitude and longitude rule. But I won't support it's use until both algorithm and word list are in the public domain - and then only maybe!

Google's "plus" codes are already a much better alternative to w3w

 

[AntarcticPilot]

As another solo sailor I wonder how much time you spend at the helm.

How do you cook, eat, doze and pee? Is this all done on while gripping the tiller/wheel for dear life?

No - I use a tiller pilot when I need to be away from the helm. Others may lock the wheel or use tiller lashings. But you do need to keep a lookout, so long periods below decks in frequented waters are not a good idea. Cooking underway is restricted to boiling a kettle.

 

[Buck Turgidson]

I don't for a moment believe that SAR helos need a grid reference. They may have the ability to convert OS Grid to Lat and Long for land rescues where hikers/mountaineers provide it and it may well be of use to an observer/crew working from a OS topogrphic overlay but it would be totally useless offshore as it is impossible for either the caller to provide one or the responder to find it.
All aircraft GPS systems fundamentally operate on Lat/Long. I daresay a W3W interface is incorporated too these days.

w3w is not a thing in aviation. Complete waste of time and money.

 

[Buck Turgidson]

No - I use a tiller pilot when I need to be away from the helm. Others may lock the wheel or use tiller lashings. But you do need to keep a lookout, so long periods below decks in frequented waters are not a good idea. Cooking underway is restricted to boiling a kettle.

Boiling a kettle is for tea or coffee. I can watch the stove from my perch under the sprayhood whilst keeping a lookout.

 

[Dellquay13]

As another solo sailor I wonder how much time you spend at the helm.

How do you cook, eat, doze and pee? Is this all done on while gripping the tiller/wheel for dear life?

I rarely sail more than 4hrs a stretch solo, longer trips I save for when my missus can join me.
As others have said the tiller pilot takes the strain when I need to nip below, never for long as I want to keep a good watch.
If solo my tiller pilot is in use most of the routine time while I concentrate on watch and sail trim.

 

[Dellquay13]

w3w is not a thing in aviation. Complete waste of time and money.

Maybe needs someone to invent WhatFourWords to account for altitude.
Not very likely you spend much time in one spot in aviation though, unless you have a Hover capability

 

[AntarcticPilot]

Maybe needs someone to invent WhatFourWords to account for altitude.
Not very likely you spend much time in one spot in aviation though, unless you have a Hover capability

WhatFourWords exists - it links to one of the satirical sites using NSFW vocabulary (Four King Maps)!

 

[AntarcticPilot]

Boiling a kettle is for tea or coffee. I can watch the stove from my perch under the sprayhood whilst keeping a lookout.

It's the preparation that I would find tricky. I tend to rely on noodles and packet soup under way.

 

[Dellquay13]

WhatFourWords exists - it links to one of the satirical sites using NSFW vocabulary (Four King Maps)!

Just found that one, added to favourites! But then again I never grew out of Viz, and Das Crapital is onboard my boat

 

[Plum]

I don't for a moment believe that SAR helos need a grid reference. They may have the ability to convert OS Grid to Lat and Long for land rescues where hikers/mountaineers provide it and it may well be of use to an observer/crew working from a OS topogrphic overlay but it would be totally useless offshore as it is impossible for either the caller to provide one or the responder to find it.
All aircraft GPS systems fundamentally operate on Lat/Long. I daresay a W3W interface is incorporated too these days.

You are right. The Coastguard SAR helicopters can work with any of those systems, whichever is appropriate or provided to them.

 

[Supine Being]

On my last boat I saved the lat/long 'position' of the centre of compass roses on charts I was using as a waypoint in the GPS. That way I could transfer a quick fix from GPS to the paper chart by using the bearing and distance to that position on the chart. Worked for me, anyway. Much less cumbersome than fiddling around with lat/long at sea.

 

[newtothis]

On my last boat I saved the lat/long 'position' of the centre of compass roses on charts I was using as a waypoint in the GPS. That way I could transfer a quick fix from GPS to the paper chart by using the bearing and distance to that position on the chart. Worked for me, anyway. Much less cumbersome than fiddling around with lat/long at sea.

I got taught that one too. Mark up a bit of paper with miles on it, line up with bearing to compass rose waypoint, mark off at distance... I must be here.

 

[Supertramp]

Boiling a kettle is for tea or coffee. I can watch the stove from my perch under the sprayhood whilst keeping a lookout.

I use on of these on long passages. Saves a lot of time and effort. Keep it tied up in the galley. Makes tea for 12-18 hrs.

 

[MADRIGAL]

Had a real life experience of this dilemma a couple of years ago when I picked up a pot line just outside Poole harbour. Lovely sunny Saturday afternoon with light winds so no big drama. Coastguard required Lat and Long although I was ready to give a bearing from a major nearby navigation mark which is one of my waypoints. Took me by surprise as I know the RNLI will be using bearings and visual. I also learned that should a chopper be required they would be working to OS grid reference!

Since GPS came along I have always though that where you are in relation to a known fixed point (or more than one) is more important than an artificial point on map/chart.

Range and bearing from a known location definitely gives a fix. You can plot it on a chart, and compare your current bearing to the landmark (or more likely, it's reciprocal) as you approach the area. I suppose the advantage of lat/long. co-ordinates is that it would be easy to enter it as a waypoint and navigate to it by GNSS.