Latest Brexit Scare

So I - like you - are impacted. But only if I choose to bring the boat back which is unlikely.

I know for example boats.co.uk bring boats regularly back to Essex from Mallorca so some activities / people will be hit.

What is not ok is that as a U.K. national with a U.K. vat paid asset I am unable to bring it back to my own country without penalty of more vat. Given the value this charge is considerable. However as above I am not that likely to do this.

The flip side is I can buy a vat unpaid boat and keep it in Spain subject to taking it from the eu every 18 months
 
Helpful for U.K. based boats residuals ?
There will be an age cut off , or could be like classic cars and taxes inc VAT when you import them from the the EU 27 to the U.K. .
The Atlantic is not gonna suddenly open up and swallow Britain after 31 Dec , 2021 will be chaotic and stuff will be written up / sorted on the hoof so to speak .
There will be a pecking order , there’s only so many hrs in a day so it’s ( quite righty ) up to the RYA or any other stake holder to keep lobbying to get what ever axe they want to grind up the list / pecking order of jobs to be done in Parliament.
Rome was not built in a day .

Personally zero effect .
I am in the camp of buy one out there anyhow theses days it’s not as if there’s limited choice .Arguably a wider choice. aside Med spec and all that etc .Choose carefully and when it’s time to pack it in sell it back to a EU 27 or another Brit wanting to follow suit .

Most Brit boaters I know and keep meeting do that anyhow , buy / sell one out there .
Infact it’s only the folks on here , this forum that I know who bought in the UK and shipped or sailed them over .
This forum arguably paints a tainted image of the Brit Med scene, it’s not truly representative.

So existing Brits ^^^ JRudge + Hurricanes boats demand value will increase from a sell from a to a Brit newbie pov , forcing up residual s I would have thought as the option to buy in the UK ( despite shipping cost ) has been made a tad less attractive??
Assuming anybody’s interested used Med based fairprinseekers .

Any potential sell up and sale live aboard s who plan to do some sort of big trip around the world ( until it’s sorted ) will just have to use two neurones instead of one planning there destinations from a vat free pov playing the 18 month card until a clearer picture emerges , if the Med is on the bucket list .I think a few do anyhow .

More RYA flapping imho .
 
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Agree with most above, not a big deal for me.

Would be annoying if my plan were to bring boat back to the UK though, but it's not.
 
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Portofino said:
Helpful for U.K. based boats residuals ?
Click to expand...

One eyed as ever Porto. VAT affects trade in both directions. Just as VAT paid boats in the EU may have to pay VAT a second time on importation into the UK, so may VAT paid boats in the UK have to pay VAT a second time on importation into the EU. This will affect VAT paid boats purchased in the EU and imported into the UK but it will also affect VAT paid boats purchased in the UK and imported into the EU

Over the years there have been many EU buyers sourcing boats in the UK market to take advantage of weak Sterling. This was particularly the case during the last financial crisis when Scandinavian buyers almost kept the UK market afloat by buying boats in the UK that were made cheaper by a weak Sterling. The UK market will be far less attractive to EU buyers in the future because they will have to pay VAT on importation into the EU so the idea that UK boats will suddenly become more valuable is for the birds

As for UK boat builders selling new boats into the EU, IMHO their market will also be affected. I have bought 2 UK built boats in the EU and re-imported them back into the UK specifically to sell them. If I was in the market for a boat in the EU now, I would think twice about buying a UK boat because my option to re-import it back into the UK to sell it has effectively been taken away

More generally, this issue is only the tip of a very large iceberg. VAT is going to affect the trade of all sorts of goods, new and secondhand, between the EU and the UK and vice versa
 
Deleted User said:
One eyed as ever Porto. VAT affects trade in both directions. Just as VAT paid boats in the EU may have to pay VAT a second time on importation into the UK, so may VAT paid boats in the UK have to pay VAT a second time on importation into the EU. This will affect VAT paid boats purchased in the EU and imported into the UK but it will also affect VAT paid boats purchased in the UK and imported into the EU

Over the years there have been many EU buyers sourcing boats in the UK market to take advantage of weak Sterling. This was particularly the case during the last financial crisis when Scandinavian buyers almost kept the UK market afloat by buying boats in the UK that were made cheaper by a weak Sterling. The UK market will be far less attractive to EU buyers in the future because they will have to pay VAT on importation into the EU so the idea that UK boats will suddenly become more valuable is for the birds

As for UK boat builders selling new boats into the EU, IMHO their market will also be affected. I have bought 2 UK built boats in the EU and re-imported them back into the UK specifically to sell them. If I was in the market for a boat in the EU now, I would think twice about buying a UK boat because my option to re-import it back into the UK to sell it has effectively been taken away

More generally, this issue is only the tip of a very large iceberg. VAT is going to affect the trade of all sorts of goods, new and secondhand, between the EU and the UK and vice versa
Click to expand...
The supply tap ( until it’s sorted the re importation of existing vat paid bit ) will be choked for a while .The demand from newbie Corvid friendly seeking staycationing will rise = firming up of residues .

As said the RYA can shout all they want and the fact there protestations fall on deaf ears is indicative of far more urgent stuff higher up the pecking order for Parliament to tackle at the mo .
It’s turn in the house will eventually come .

One does question the wisdom ( well I do ) of moving sand to the Arabs from the U.K. and then moving it back , or moving ice from the U.K. to the Eskimos , then some time later getting into administrative problems or hypothetical admin issues re VAT attempting to re import the very said ice .All because there’s a seemingly albeit temporary change in the “rules “ from one side .
 
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If this does happen boats will have to be 20% cheaper abroad to make them attractive to UK buyers , how the future will implicate the traders I don’t know .
one thing for sure is that the Channel Island boats would be more attractive to UK buyers as it’s always been a stigma with the vat implications .
Let’s see what RYA and HMRC come up with , though Looking at how the red diesel situation has developed I doubt very much the outcome will be that favourable .
 
Brits planning boating activities in the EU will simply have to decide which sword to throw themselves on when they get their next boat ...

Stay a British resident and buy a VAT free boat in the EU and it's the 18month rule for the boat and the 90/180 rule for the person - with VAT payable if it ever comes to the UK.
Get EU residence to get past the 90/180 rule and the new boat must be EU VAT paid, with VAT paid again if it ever comes to the UK.

... of course, before the UK left there was FoM for people and goods, so no VAT or residency issues whatsoever - but the Leavers were persuaded to give this up not just for themselves - some of which are not really affected - but for everyone else too.

As expected though, as Porto has so eloquently stated above - it doesn't affect him so all is fine. :rolleyes:
 
[QUOTE="Birdseye, po
You are right there. Not that its an important issue. Numbers affected are likely to be pretty small
[/QUOTE]
I know at least 3 people with boats in France who think otherwise. For them, if it’s not resolved , it will, potentially be a very important issue.
 
From my point of view, I don't think it will make much difference.
This is as long as our boats that are already in the EU continue to have their EU Goods status - which I believe is likely.
The link I posted above relates to boats being returned to the UK after 31st Dec 2020.
There is a short inconclusive comment about boats already in the EU though.

We had our P67 in the UK during her first season before taking her out to the Med.
And, for us, she is too big for the kind of boating that we would do in the UK.
Yes, there are 65+ feet boats in the UK but I bet they don't get as much use as they would in the Med.
Ours certainly wouldn't.
IMO, this is the case for boats over (about) 60 feet.
Something like a Squaddie 58 would be borderline - IMO

So, I wouldn't consider taking our P67 back to the UK anyway which means she would be sold in the Med as a VAT paid boat.
This means that she is worth more to a UK national who wants to do his boating in the EDIT: Med (corrected from UK) - certainly not less.
We are not in the market for selling anyway.

So, as far as the boat is concerned, I am more interested that our boats retain their EU Goods status after 31st December 2020.

90/180 Day Rule
As far as the 90/180 day rule is concerned, it seems to me that it really isn't that bad.
It would be interesting to hear what people think what the 90/180 day rule actually is.
From what I can see, it is a rolling window of 180 days.
All you need to make sure is that during any 180 day period, you haven't spent more than 90 days in the EU.
It is a Schengen thing and well documented on the Schengen website.
Quote from the Schengen website:-
Actually, the 180-day period keeps rolling. Therefore, anytime you wish to enter the Schengen, you just have to count backwards the last 180 days, and see if you have been present in the Schengen for more than 90 days throughout that period.

Furthermore, Schengen dictates that the 90/180 day rule applies to British Citizens NOW - even before 31st Dec 2020
And has done for a long time.
If this is the case - whats the difference going to be?

This is all - as I see it.
Can anyone provide documentary proof that I'm wrong?
 
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Baggywrinkle said:
Brits planning boating activities in the EU will simply have to decide which sword to throw themselves on when they get their next boat ...

Stay a British resident and buy a VAT free boat in the EU and it's the 18month rule for the boat and the 90/180 rule for the person - with VAT payable if it ever comes to the UK.
Get EU residence to get past the 90/180 rule and the new boat must be EU VAT paid, with VAT paid again if it ever comes to the UK.

... of course, before the UK left there was FoM for people and goods, so no VAT or residency issues whatsoever - but the Leavers were persuaded to give this up not just for themselves - some of which are not really affected - but for everyone else too.

As expected though, as Porto has so eloquently stated above - it doesn't affect him so all is fine. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

With regard to residency, is the Spanish Wealth Tax (Matriculation tax???) still a thing these days?
 
MikeBrazier said:
With regard to residency, is the Spanish Wealth Tax (Matriculation tax???) still a thing these days?
Click to expand...
AFAIK Wealth Tax and Matriculation Tax are two entirely different things.
It has been a few years since I looked but I don't think that the Wealth Tax came to much and the nil rate band was set at 750,000 euros
AFAIK Mat Tax is only paid if you "import" an asset into Spain and non Spanish leisure boats seem to be allowed in Spain.
I believe that to date Mat Tax has only been applied to commercial vessels working in Spanish waters.
But, yes, Mat Tax could raise its ugly head again.
 
Hurricane said:
From my point of view, I don't think it will make much difference.
This is as long as our boats that are already in the EU continue to have their EU Goods status - which I believe is likely.
The link I posted above relates to boats being returned to the UK after 31st Dec 2020.
There is a short inconclusive comment about boats already in the EU though.

We had our P67 in the UK during her first season before taking her out to the Med.
And, for us, she is too big for the kind of boating that we would do in the UK.
Yes, there are 65+ feet boats in the UK but I bet they don't get as much use as they would in the Med.
Ours certainly wouldn't.
IMO, this is the case for boats over (about) 60 feet.
Something like a Squaddie 58 would be borderline - IMO

So, I wouldn't consider taking our P67 back to the UK anyway which means she would be sold in the Med as a VAT paid boat.
This means that she is worth more to a UK national who wants to do his boating in the UK - certainly not less.
We are not in the market for selling anyway.

So, as far as the boat is concerned, I am more interested that our boats retain their EU Goods status after 31st December 2020.

90/180 Day Rule
As far as the 90/180 day rule is concerned, it seems to me that it really isn't that bad.
It would be interesting to hear what people think what the 90/180 day rule actually is.
From what I can see, it is a rolling window of 180 days.
All you need to make sure is that during any 180 day period, you haven't spent more than 90 days in the EU.
It is a Schengen thing and well documented on the Schengen website.
Quote from the Schengen website:-
Actually, the 180-day period keeps rolling. Therefore, anytime you wish to enter the Schengen, you just have to count backwards the last 180 days, and see if you have been present in the Schengen for more than 90 days throughout that period.

Furthermore, Schengen dictates that the 90/180 day rule applies to British Citizens NOW - even before 31st Dec 2020
And has done for a long time.
If this is the case - whats the difference going to be?

This is all - as I see it.
Can anyone provide documentary proof that I'm wrong?
Click to expand...
Your bit that I’ve highlighted above doesn’t make sense to me. Can you explain what you mean.

And I don’t think you’re right about the 90/180 days applying to UK citizens in Europe now. But that will be the case after 31/12/20.
 
longjohnsilver said:
Your bit that I’ve highlighted above doesn’t make sense to me. Can you explain what you mean.

And I don’t think you’re right about the 90/180 days applying to UK citizens in Europe now. But that will be the case after 31/12/20.
Click to expand...
OK
I should have made a comparison
After 31st Dec 2020, UK citizen buying a second hand boat in the UK and wanting to use it in the Med would have to pay VAT to move it into Europe.
Even if it was a UK VAT paid boat.
As I understand it, any boats already in the EU as at 31st Dec 2020 will not have to pay any VAT as they are already EU Goods.
So, my statement was saying that to a UK Citizen wanting to buy a boat and use it in the Med would find it cheaper to buy a boat already in the EU

Does that help?

Please challenge me on the 90/180 day rule.
I'm happy to be wrong but at the moment, I don't think I am.
I've got the same discussion running on our marina forum and nobody has yet come up with a contradiction to my post.
 
Hurricane said:
OK
I should have made a comparison
After 31st Dec 2020, UK citizen buying a second hand boat in the UK and wanting to use it in the Med would have to pay VAT to move it into Europe.
Even if it was a UK VAT paid boat.
As I understand it, any boats already in the EU as at 31st Dec 2020 will not have to pay any VAT as they are already EU Goods.
So, my statement was saying that to a UK Citizen wanting to buy a boat and use it in the Med would find it cheaper to buy a boat already in the EU

Does that help?

Please challenge me on the 90/180 day rule.
I'm happy to be wrong but at the moment, I don't think I am.
I've got the same discussion running on our marina forum and nobody has yet come up with a contradiction to my post.
Click to expand...
I thought that was what you meant, but you actually said using it in the UK, not the Med.
 
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