MarkJohnson12345
New member
Never had a problem using old fuel in outboards. Never had a high performance engine tho'
Last seasons fuel
- Thread starter qmackay
- Start date
supermalc
New member
It's all down to the unleaded rubbish they call petrol today. I'm sure Nigel will expand if he want's to.
I also fell foul of this a few (actually more than a few <grin>) years ago with a small motorbike. A simple autolube 2 stroke. Petrol had been in the tank for 18 months or so. Spend a day wondering why it wouldn't go, until someone said change the petrol. Got the usual reply.....well I've had bikes with petrol stored for over 2 years in my youth....started instantly.
We live and learn.
I also fell foul of this a few (actually more than a few <grin>) years ago with a small motorbike. A simple autolube 2 stroke. Petrol had been in the tank for 18 months or so. Spend a day wondering why it wouldn't go, until someone said change the petrol. Got the usual reply.....well I've had bikes with petrol stored for over 2 years in my youth....started instantly.
We live and learn.
A
Anonymous
Guest
[ QUOTE ]
I don't think you've actually tried using it have you?
Where's your sense of adventure?
[/ QUOTE ]Last season's fuel? I have never yet thrown away old two stroke and never had a failure.
I'm not saying that there isn't a problem but to get to the bottom of it I would like to learn how people 'change the fuel'. It could be that the act of doing that removes water, grot, airlocks, etc.
When I first started using two strokes around 40 years ago, a mechanic friend of the family (army-trained professional mechanic) told me that all petrol and to a greater extent two stroke tends to block carbs when left in there. That's why I always turn the fuel off and wait for the engine to die rather than use a stop switch. I don't think this is anything new, and I wonder whether it is poor fuel or poor practice that is to blame.
I don't think you've actually tried using it have you?
Where's your sense of adventure?
[/ QUOTE ]Last season's fuel? I have never yet thrown away old two stroke and never had a failure.
I'm not saying that there isn't a problem but to get to the bottom of it I would like to learn how people 'change the fuel'. It could be that the act of doing that removes water, grot, airlocks, etc.
When I first started using two strokes around 40 years ago, a mechanic friend of the family (army-trained professional mechanic) told me that all petrol and to a greater extent two stroke tends to block carbs when left in there. That's why I always turn the fuel off and wait for the engine to die rather than use a stop switch. I don't think this is anything new, and I wonder whether it is poor fuel or poor practice that is to blame.
Porthandbuoy
Well-known member
Drained the lot, cleaned the carb . . . then replaced the damn starter cord which I'd ripped apart . . . then got her indoors to apply Deep Heat to right shoulder and got my son to mow the lawn.
VicS
Well-known member
Re: The wife\'s car
The wife's car has a petrol engine and will consume old 2stroke fuel with no problems. Mine is a diesel! Before any body else joins in I know a small quantity of petrol will go unnoticed in a diesel.
The wife's car has a petrol engine and will consume old 2stroke fuel with no problems. Mine is a diesel! Before any body else joins in I know a small quantity of petrol will go unnoticed in a diesel.
Ships_Cat
New member
Easier than getting into arguments on the forum about if the fuel is ok or not I just make sure that I don't end up with leftover fuel.
If the motor is small, as yours is, and not to be used for a few weeks or more I empty the tank by tipping the engine upside down over a funnel and then run the fuel lines, etc dry of fuel by running the engine in a large bucket of fresh water (if the engine has a gearbox and is only little this can be done by holding it by hand, or you may find the big bucket fits under it while the engine is on a pushpit bracket).
I only mix about 5 litres of 2 stroke fuel at a time which gives quite a lot of running for a 2 - 3.5 HP engine - any left over, normally only a litre or two, I just tip into the car's near full tank and any petrol not yet mixed with oil goes in too. I suggest that you do the same with the left over fuel you now have (perhaps a few litres at a time if you have much of it) and then mix up fresh for the outboard.
So, whether the fuel lasts or not is now irrelevant, but no doubt an argument will now start regarding the wisdom of putting a little 2 stroke fuel into a modern car engine (just like VicS, ours have certainly never minded /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif).
John
If the motor is small, as yours is, and not to be used for a few weeks or more I empty the tank by tipping the engine upside down over a funnel and then run the fuel lines, etc dry of fuel by running the engine in a large bucket of fresh water (if the engine has a gearbox and is only little this can be done by holding it by hand, or you may find the big bucket fits under it while the engine is on a pushpit bracket).
I only mix about 5 litres of 2 stroke fuel at a time which gives quite a lot of running for a 2 - 3.5 HP engine - any left over, normally only a litre or two, I just tip into the car's near full tank and any petrol not yet mixed with oil goes in too. I suggest that you do the same with the left over fuel you now have (perhaps a few litres at a time if you have much of it) and then mix up fresh for the outboard.
So, whether the fuel lasts or not is now irrelevant, but no doubt an argument will now start regarding the wisdom of putting a little 2 stroke fuel into a modern car engine (just like VicS, ours have certainly never minded /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif).
John
Das_Boot
New member
I give mine the tounge tip test. If it tastes fresh it is fresh. I am in the process of pulling my outboard out of the loft. Seeing as it has been up there for 6 months I am almost sure the petrol/oil mixture has gone off.
This method of testing for freshness takes years to master. You need to get a good wine glass swirl the left over petrol arround take a big snif then fill the mouth gurgle in the back of the throat NEVER SWALLOW. Once you have masterd this technique you will never be fooled again.
This method of testing for freshness takes years to master. You need to get a good wine glass swirl the left over petrol arround take a big snif then fill the mouth gurgle in the back of the throat NEVER SWALLOW. Once you have masterd this technique you will never be fooled again.
Ships_Cat
New member
Yes, a good test. If it is off it sort of tastes like last year's Beaujolais Nouveau. Also better if not tasted until the third Thursday in November.
John
John
chops_uk
New member
I used to have a similar problem with 2 stroke motorbikes; if left for a while, the fuel would separate / dry out in the carb bowl leaving a glutinous syrup. it was usually a simple case of cleaning the carb and continuing to use the old fuel with no problems (I did this with fuel up to a couple of years old with no trouble that I recall)
Waypoint
New member
If you are really concerned about using last seasons fuel, just pour the fuel into the tank of your car - assuming it is fitted with a petrol engine.
The very small amount of oil in the two stroke fuel will be diluted by the petrol in your car tank and you can fill up your jerry can again without loss.
Waypoint
The very small amount of oil in the two stroke fuel will be diluted by the petrol in your car tank and you can fill up your jerry can again without loss.
Waypoint
Rabbie
New member
Possible, I suppose. But as Captain Queeg said constantly - 'You can't assume a goddam thing in this mans Navy'!. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
G
Guest
Guest
All gasolines tend to Gum if left ... this is an inherent problem that is increased by warm conditions and also light onto the fuel if clear container. Certain blended fuels will tend to gum quicker than others .... but this is not normally a problem for cars - as most people do not have fuel standing around so long or subject to light etc.
With the outboard though - often they are left for periods with fuel in and this problem is seen at times - especially with 2T mix. The age-old habit of running a carb dry is a good one and helps to keep float chambers etc. from gumming up.
A good shake and mix of old fuel is usually enough to sort it out - but in extreme cases you can have a real gum that is persistent.
The above post may appear to contradict my usual advise on this - but in fact does not - it is just to highlight why some do have a problem - generally though - old fuel if kept sealed and in cool will be ok for appreciable period. It is best though NOT to mix 2T and stand it ..... best kept as gasoline ready for mixing when needed.
With the outboard though - often they are left for periods with fuel in and this problem is seen at times - especially with 2T mix. The age-old habit of running a carb dry is a good one and helps to keep float chambers etc. from gumming up.
A good shake and mix of old fuel is usually enough to sort it out - but in extreme cases you can have a real gum that is persistent.
The above post may appear to contradict my usual advise on this - but in fact does not - it is just to highlight why some do have a problem - generally though - old fuel if kept sealed and in cool will be ok for appreciable period. It is best though NOT to mix 2T and stand it ..... best kept as gasoline ready for mixing when needed.
Avocet
Well-known member
Sorry for drifting slightly off-topic, but is there any truth in what I've been told about forecourt petrol (and diesel) having slightly different formulations in winter and summer? I was told this ages ago when I had a car that would sometimes "pink" in the early spring when the weather started getting warm and someone told me that if I had filled up at a small petrol station that didn't sell a great deal, it might have still had some "winter" petrol in its tanks. Sure enough, filling up at a larger station on a main road seemed to cure it.
Any thoughts Nigel?
Any thoughts Nigel?
Lakesailor
New member
By the time this threads run it's course it will be the season before last's fuel.
G
Guest
Guest
Seasonal fuels ....
Yes there are seasonal fuels. The main one is of course Diesel - where summer disel does not have CFPP additive and will Filter plug at approximately -7C. An amount of CFPP additive is added before winter so that winter stock to forecourts will satisfy EN590 -15C CFPP ......
A quick look on the forecourt pumps and you will see the Label stick on there ..... EN590 -15C etc.
As to petrol (gasoline) - this is not so straight forward and really depends on location. In climates where winter and summer differ significantly it is the norm to alter the vapour pressure of the gasoline and also Oxidation Stability. The pinging you mention is actually due to reduced octane and not as a result of winter or summer grade.
In fact it is unusual to hear any engine ping now unless you are out where I am and you stick 76 gasoline into your 95 rated engine !
Diesel - road diesel that is - yes you can get caught out if you don't use up all your summer diesel before the real cold hits .... gasoline - shouldn't make any difference ....
Winter diesel is no problem in summer ......
So there you are in simple terms.
I'm sure someone else will add a bit to what I have written ... !!!
Yes there are seasonal fuels. The main one is of course Diesel - where summer disel does not have CFPP additive and will Filter plug at approximately -7C. An amount of CFPP additive is added before winter so that winter stock to forecourts will satisfy EN590 -15C CFPP ......
A quick look on the forecourt pumps and you will see the Label stick on there ..... EN590 -15C etc.
As to petrol (gasoline) - this is not so straight forward and really depends on location. In climates where winter and summer differ significantly it is the norm to alter the vapour pressure of the gasoline and also Oxidation Stability. The pinging you mention is actually due to reduced octane and not as a result of winter or summer grade.
In fact it is unusual to hear any engine ping now unless you are out where I am and you stick 76 gasoline into your 95 rated engine !
Diesel - road diesel that is - yes you can get caught out if you don't use up all your summer diesel before the real cold hits .... gasoline - shouldn't make any difference ....
Winter diesel is no problem in summer ......
So there you are in simple terms.
I'm sure someone else will add a bit to what I have written ... !!!
