Kubota vs Beta

[MattS]

A boat I’m looking at has a 2010 Kubota 45hp installed. My current boat has a Beta 20 which I really like.

I understand that Betas are marinised Kubotas, but why would this owner have chosen to install a native Kubota rather than a Beta?

Are there any reasons to be more wary of a Kubota having been installed rather than a Beta? (E.g. marinised parts less reliable, or they tend to be bodged to fit a bit more)

 

[ChromeDome]

I don't remember ever having heard that Kubota marinized their engines. Beta, Onan, Nanni and more are using their base engines though.

Did you ask the owner?
Is he just referring to his Beta as a Kubota?

 

[Neeves]

I don't remember ever having heard that Kubota marinized their engines. Beta, Onan, Nanni and more are using their base engines though.

Did you ask the owner?
Is he just referring to his Beta as a Kubota?

Superficially you could have access to a cheap, and perfectly reliable, Kobota and buy the marinised parts from a number of sources and simply bolt them on.

My understanding is that these 'small' base engines are used in a whole host of unrelated applications and are built to accept studs or bolts in a whole variety of strange places and also accept other additions, like indirect water cooling etc etc. On our Perkins better known as Volvo I added a different location for the oil filter, beside, or behind the alternator to make it more accessible) - and I simply used two unused holes for studs that Volvo had not used. I'm not aware that these engines are made specially for Nanni, nor Beta - they are standard engines.

Just check the colour of the engine (or the marinised extras (actually not that many) - I don't know what colour Kuboto use but Nanni are blue, Beta, red etc. The colour is part of branding (the big thing you notice of Beta or Nanni is not the sophistication (or not) of their heat exchange - but the colour the finished unit is painted).

Hands up anyone who could tell a Nanni heat exchanger (if painted pink) as opposed to a Beta heat exchange, (also painted pink)

Jonathan

 

[ChromeDome]

Hands up anyone who could tell a Nanni heat exchanger (if painted pink) as opposed to a Beta heat exchange, (also painted pink)

Nanni, Yanmar, Watermota, Vetus and then some has their name moulded on the exchangers so easy to recognize. Beta however uses a sticker.

Just saying

 

[ChromeDome]

Some of the engine manufacturers sell their products 'prepared' for marine use - eg. my Nanni's are based on Toyota 1KZ-TE engines but named M1KZ.

Don't know the details but the hp range for marine is different to those found in Toyota Landcruiser, Hilux, Hi-Ace or industrial applications.

 

[jwfrary]

Superficially you could have access to a cheap, and perfectly reliable, Kobota and buy the marinised parts from a number of sources and simply bolt them on.

My understanding is that these 'small' base engines are used in a whole host of unrelated applications and are built to accept studs or bolts in a whole variety of strange places and also accept other additions, like indirect water cooling etc etc. On our Perkins better known as Volvo I added a different location for the oil filter, beside, or behind the alternator to make it more accessible) - and I simply used two unused holes for studs that Volvo had not used. I'm not aware that these engines are made specially for Nanni, nor Beta - they are standard engines.

Just check the colour of the engine (or the marinised extras (actually not that many) - I don't know what colour Kuboto use but Nanni are blue, Beta, red etc. The colour is part of branding (the big thing you notice of Beta or Nanni is not the sophistication (or not) of their heat exchange - but the colour the finished unit is painted).

Hands up anyone who could tell a Nanni heat exchanger (if painted pink) as opposed to a Beta heat exchange, (also painted pink)

Jonathan

Well you could take one off each engine and swap them no problem, but nanni use a cast housing which is a bit more sophisticated than betas, but exhaust elbow more limited. Betas exchanger is welded.

You can buy a heat exchanger from bowman for the kubota engines, and there's no reason why not, all you have to do is add feet and an appropriate wiring loom and your there!

 

[jwfrary]

Nanni, Yanmar, Watermota, Vetus and then some has their name moulded on the exchangers so easy to recognize. Beta however uses a sticker.

Just saying

They don't make it themselves that's why!

 

[ChromeDome]

Helped a mate, during Covid lockdown, with a 40-year-old DAF DT615M, 5.9 litre 165 hp engine when the original heat exchanger (coolant and oil built into one) leaked from pin holes everywhere. No replacements available (apart from a used one offered at eyewatering cost from The Netherlands).

Looked everywhere and found Bowman to be most helpful. They needed facts like how many kW is dissipated from the coolant and oil respectively, flow rate and temperature of the seawater etc. to propose a suitable exchanger. And then of course the space available - the original was a 6½" x 33" tube design, shoe-horned in along the engine block.

Ended up with two 3-pass exchangers in series, fitted almost in line and close to the original position.

 

[Neeves]

Well you could take one off each engine and swap them no problem, but nanni use a cast housing which is a bit more sophisticated than betas, but exhaust elbow more limited. Betas exchanger is welded.

You can buy a heat exchanger from bowman for the kubota engines, and there's no reason why not, all you have to do is add feet and an appropriate wiring loom and your there!

You need to add the seawater pump - but that comes from 'another' subcontractor. Alternators (and sheaves) are a bit like commodities, lots of sources.

Interesting though the engines are made by Kubota or Perkins and the major part of the engine is not changed (apart from the paint) - we know them as Beta or Volvo - a marketing coup.

Jonathan

 

[ChromeDome]

Back in time e.g. Volvo made their own (car/truck) engines and marinized them after proving reliable.

The cost of development nowadays changed the make vs buy calculation completely.

 

[MattS]

The listing

I don't remember ever having heard that Kubota marinized their engines. Beta, Onan, Nanni and more are using their base engines though.

Did you ask the owner?
Is he just referring to his Beta as a Kubota?

The description is Auxiliary propulsion on the vessel was provided by a replacement Kubota (V2203); inboard naturally aspirated Diesel engine rated @ 45hp reported to have been installed in 2010.

I have put the question to the broker, but based on the dates the current owner was not the one who installed the engine, and I really wanted some objective input on use of a Kubota anyhow.

 

[MattS]

Superficially you could have access to a cheap, and perfectly reliable, Kobota and buy the marinised parts from a number of sources and simply bolt them on.

My understanding is that these 'small' base engines are used in a whole host of unrelated applications and are built to accept studs or bolts in a whole variety of strange places and also accept other additions, like indirect water cooling etc etc. On our Perkins better known as Volvo I added a different location for the oil filter, beside, or behind the alternator to make it more accessible) - and I simply used two unused holes for studs that Volvo had not used. I'm not aware that these engines are made specially for Nanni, nor Beta - they are standard engines.

Just check the colour of the engine (or the marinised extras (actually not that many) - I don't know what colour Kuboto use but Nanni are blue, Beta, red etc. The colour is part of branding (the big thing you notice of Beta or Nanni is not the sophistication (or not) of their heat exchange - but the colour the finished unit is painted).

Hands up anyone who could tell a Nanni heat exchanger (if painted pink) as opposed to a Beta heat exchange, (also painted pink)

Jonathan

The engine is blue, from the photos on the listing.

 

[PaulRainbow]

The engine is blue, from the photos on the listing.

That looks like the standard Kubota base engine blue, rather than the Nanni blue. These engines were/are available to buy in a crate, ready for marinising or whatever, so it might be that the original owner did the "conversion" or maybe a smaller outfit than Beta, Nanni etc.

The engine itself won't be any different to all of the branded versions, just the colour and marinised bits. If those bits all look good i don't see a problem with whatever it's branded as.

 

[Neeves]

There was a small operator based in Sydney marinising Kubota's - he never generated the commercial momentum - I suspect there are/were others.

Jonathan

 

[dankilb]

Same block as our Beta 50, but missing any of the Beta bits I recognise (from the side in the photo, at least). Great engine (for us) that I would only recommend.

 

[doug748]

A boat I’m looking at has a 2010 Kubota 45hp installed. My current boat has a Beta 20 which I really like.

I understand that Betas are marinised Kubotas, but why would this owner have chosen to install a native Kubota rather than a Beta?

Are there any reasons to be more wary of a Kubota having been installed rather than a Beta? (E.g. marinised parts less reliable, or they tend to be bodged to fit a bit more)

Home brewed engine conversions used to be quite popular. You got a new or used base engine and added the bits yourself; it's generally died out with smaller engines.

A farmer friend of mine was able to source a cheap, new 20hp Kubota engine and marinised it himself from bought in parts, of course you have to do a bit of ad libbing as well. Saved a lot of money.

If it's well done, no problem but I would find out what bits were used and it's worth checking if they are still available. Still a lot of stuff in the catalogues: Vetus, ASAP etc.

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