Knowing nothing to solo sailing ?

[Kukri]

Thanks - there are avenues to get sailing here. Maybe I should try going back to the Yacht club - although it did seem a bit cliquey and not my scene. In the meantime, I'll pursue dinghy sailing and get competent with that. Like I say though, if I could get enough basic skills to feel confident heading out solo, I would learn quickly.

Maybe a good plan would be:

Achieve competency in dinghy sailing
Read as many books as I can in the meantime
Do a competent crew course
Buy a boat

Would that be enough? I've heard of people doing it with less...

I would say “yes”, but perhaps make that a day skipper course rather than competent crew.

I was very shy and not at all at ease in yacht clubs. Looking back, although I taught myself in my own boats, I could have got there faster if I hadn’t been so ill at ease in yacht clubs, so now that I belong to a properly posh one I make a point of trying to help people who might want to join. I will pass on an odd discovery - the rather grand yacht club that I sailed past for thirty years thinking it would be full of snobs and bores turned out to be more friendly, and far less cliquey, than the more modest club that I had belonged to.

Once you have bought your first boat and sailed her yourself a few times, try to crew for someone who is a recognised expert, doing something difficult somewhere else. Consider that as your finishing course, because by then you will know enough to look around and pick up details as well as understanding what you are told.

 

[steve yates]

There are various different ways to get into sailing, all valid. Which is best depends on the person.

If you decide that "get a boat and figure it out" is your way - which it may or may not be - then my recommendation for a book is Tom Cunliffe's "Complete Day Skipper". Despite the name it doesn't really have much to do with the RYA course (though obviously they cover a lot of the same material) but is written for someone who has somehow acquired a boat despite knowing nothing of sailing. It literally starts with how to climb on board properly, has a first "lesson" of going out and motoring around your local river or harbour and back, and goes on to touch on everything from fixing dodgy engines to how to avoid annoying your neighbours when rafted up (tied to their boat instead of to a pontoon because the harbour is full).

Pete

What Pete said. I did exactly that. I did a comp crew course, intending to go onto dayskipper etc, but never bothered. I went out and bought a wee boat and sailed from maryport. I was solo from the very start, cunnicliffes dayskipper was rarely out of my hands on those first forays across the solway to scotland. I did the day skipper theory online, ( well, half of it)
My first sail was September, a two day trip to Scotland and back. My next in October, out for 3 days. One more in Feb, amother 3 day jaunt across the solway, then in may I set sail for Isle of Man on the start of a 1200 mile trip.
I am fully behind the buy a boat and just go approach, but you need to be able to think for yourself, calculate risk carefully and ask a LOT of questions
Buy a small boat first, doesn't matter if you wreck it, (mine was £600 for the boat, £600 for the outboard.), and it's too small to cause major damage to big expensive boats in marinas when you hit them.
I was told when I started, sailings easy... keep yourself in the boat, keep the water out and keep the boat off the land. The rest is just detail which will come with practise.
Good luck.

 

[Kukri]

More sound advice.

I am so old (66!) that I taught myself by reading:
“Swallows and Amazons”
“Sailing” by E.F. Knight (1890 or so)
“A manual for small yachts” (1939)
“Seamanship for Yachtsmen” (F.B.Cooke, 1900s)

 

[steve yates]

By the way, I wouldn't bother over much about dinghy sailing. It will teach you about how sails and wind interact, but I find it has nothing in general to do with cruising keelboats and is no comparison. I had one and going round in circles on a lake is boring compared to the unlimited vistas and destinations a cruising boat can take you.

Unless of course you want to, if it's a means to and end skip it and go straight to cruising boats.

 

[Kukri]

By the way, I wouldn't bother over much about dinghy sailing. It will teach you about how sails and wind interact, but I find it has nothing in general to do with cruising keelboats and is no comparison. I had one and going round in circles on a lake is boring compared to the unlimited vistas and destinations a cruising boat can take you.

Unless of course you want to, if it's a means to and end skip it and go straight to cruising boats.

+1.

 

[Tomahawk]

He said Liverpool in post #7.

My bad I was skim reading...

 

[weustace]

An exciting journey to go on! I too started with Cunliffe's Day Skipper book, and, when you've got all that sorted, you can go onto his "Complete Yachtmaster", which is an altogether more serious tome (with stuff you will find handy).

I did Day Skipper with minimal yachting experience, a dinghy sailing background, and time spent reading the book. If you are not drowning in cash, I would (strictly in a personal capacity) advise not doing the shore-based theory course and instead making sure you know the material from the book—I did this and I was more competent due to that effort than at least one person on the course who had spend a few hundred pounds on being taught for five days in a classroom. Of course, different people learn different ways—I like to learn by reading rather than by being lectured at, and for some (depending on whether you have a vague ability with numbers, mainly) the tidal calculations give trouble (and is usually the sticking point in YM theory courses in my recent experience). I didn't find them difficult, as one with GCSE level maths (at the time)... in practice, unless I need to be absolutely sure, I fire up an app and use that. If I need to double check the result, I do it on paper, and usually get the same answer... if I don't, and do it a third time, the app is usually right

Buying a boat has something going for it; you would benefit from deciding on your aim in the medium term first. Do you want to potter round the coast, do proper offshore sailing (across to Ireland is offshore, at least in a small yacht, and doing that kind of passage and more frequently would definitely count), cross oceans, or race? Yacht racing is something I've very little experience of... it's very exciting, and gives the feeling of imminent large insurance claims (though somehow these usually seem to be avoided). A little more stressful than cruising, I'd say, but doubtless once you get good at it...

Definitely worth making sure you like yacht cruising before buying a boat...there's plenty more advice available here, but do your research first.

Regards
William

 

[Fossil]

I have a great respect for the DIY end of yachting, but I have a number of doubts about applying it to ab initio sailing. In particular, advising someone to "Forget about the theory and just go sailing" is asking for trouble. I would suggest finding a RYA Yachtmaster Theory course (many local authorities provide them, even well away from the sea) and do that.

Then at least you will know what navigation entails, the fact that boats and big ships display lights at night and informational shapes by day and what those lights and shapes mean, how to read a chart and get information from it and how to use that information, what the weather forecasters are saying, and so on.

I fear that a seasick novice, lost, cold and alone out in the shipping lanes in bad weather, might well survive the experience and go on to be a good sailor, but possibly won't and that would be too high a price to pay. In my opinion, do the theory first (you don't HAVE to sit the exam), and then you'll have an idea what it's all about when you do get out on the 'eavin' 'oggin!

 

[Skylark]

I do not have up to date info but, in your shoes, my first port of call would be Liverpool marina and sailing club.

Once upon a time it had (probably still does) a thriving sailing community. There was/is a series of weekend races in The Mersey. The boats are only out for a couple of hours due to the tides. Ask around the club and, if you show willing, you’ll probably get a ride as crew. This would be a fast learning experience.

The club/marina also regularly organises RYA Shorebased courses so, again, worth popping down to ask.

Liverpool is far from ideal as a base for a sailing cruiser. From the marina, it’s about 15 miles / 2-3 hours to the river entrance. The tides are such that for a small boat, there’s no turning back once committed. Beyond the river entrance, nowhere is close.

The nearest crusing ground is North Wales. Many options here but as a beginner, Liverpool remains your best option to learn.

Some folk like the structure provided by RYA training, others don’t. There’s room for all. We all make mistakes and sailors tend to be non judgemental. That said, a single handed beginner needs to give and be given a very wide berth

 

[Mark-1]

Welcome! Sailing's mostly common sense. I learned the basics by trial and error when my Dad shoved me off in a very forgiving 8 foot dinghy as a very young kid. By the end of that morning I was able to sail, then the first season of racing polished things up a bit.

Navigation is pretty straightforward, just get yourself a book. You'll soon figure out what is overkill in the real world.

I feel quite strongly that getting a dinghy (and perhaps a kayak) would be a very good starting point. Exploring creeks and harbours will very quickly give you an instinct for sailing and tides/currents etc. Personally, I think yachts are a bit too big an unresponsive to learn to sail in. Somehow you don't get the muscle memory. (I'm sure others will disagree! EDIT: In fact now I've read up the thread they already have. I'm not talking about spending months exclusively in dinghies, just enough time for the mechanics of sailing to be instinctive. )

So that covers the 'self taught trial+error' end of things. Whether that's the quickest way, I'm not sure. Perhaps it is, since if you do 'courses' you're still going to go through a period of trial and error perfecting things.

"I tried going out with the local yacht club but got shouted at a lot and it made me nervous." - yes, I sail on a lot of other people's boats and there's a significant number that are looking for crew in order to have someone to order around/score points off. (The fact they're looking for crew is a bit of a warning, in itself.) I sympathise but can't offer a solution to that. Just keep sailing with different people until you find someone with a similar outlook to yours - that can take a long time.

 

[Mark-1]

I fear that a seasick novice, lost, cold and alone out in the shipping lanes in bad weather,

I'm sure the OP will have the wit to leave crossing the Channel in a gale until he's got a bit of experience in easier situations. If he doesn't have that level of common sense then Sailing probably isn't for him.

 

[Fossil]

I'm sure the OP will have the wit to leave crossing the Channel in a gale until he's got a bit of experience in easier situations. If he doesn't have that level of common sense then Sailing probably isn't for him.

Oh, don't big ships go into Liverpool any more?

And that's my point, "just go sailing" could potentially get the OP into exactly that situation. Which is not the point to find out that sailing isn't for him. And others seem to think that "navigation" is anathema, God knows why. And navigation is only one part of the RYA syllabus - other parts are just as important and relevant to sailing....

 

[Mark-1]

Oh, don't big ships go into Liverpool any more?

And that's my point, "just go sailing" could potentially get the OP into exactly that situation.

He could, but it doesn't seem likely to me. I'm self taught decades ago and I *still* haven't been "a seasick novice, lost, cold and alone out in the shipping lanes in bad weather". It was 25 years before I was alone out in the shipping lanes in a gale, and that was well forecast and could easily have been avoided if I'd chosen too.

I think we can assume the OP will be approaching this in a reasoned and sensible way. Clearly if he can't do that then sailing won't be for him, but then nor would many other hobbies, including motorcycling and rock climbing.

 

[shaunksb]

and maybe get qualified and even change career as a skipper, sailing instructure, etc.

(Snip)

However, I learn best by myself and by making my own mistakes.
Ross

That’s fine but it could well take a lifetime and you are already 35.

If you really want to be a professional skipper/instructor just follow the RYA courses step by step as fast as you feel able and you’ll eventually know how it feels from both sides.

They condense all those lifetime mistakes and how to avoid them and you usually get taught by really experienced sailors whose brains you can pick on all sorts of details. Including what’s it’s like to do their job.

_________________________________

 

[Mark-1]

That’s fine but it could well take a lifetime and you are already 35.

If you really want to be a professional skipper/instructor just follow the RYA courses step by step as fast as you feel able and you’ll eventually know how it feels from both sides.

They condense all those lifetime mistakes and how to avoid them and you usually get taught by really experienced sailors whose brains you can pick on all sorts of details. Including what’s it’s like to do their job.

Ahhh, I missed the "career" aspect. If quals may be required and money isn't tight might as well kill two birds with one stone and do a 'zero to hero' course. Although I'm not sure someone who "learns best by myself and by making my own mistakes" will enjoy that or make a good teacher in the future it would be a shame to spend 6 months learning how to cruise and then effectively repeat it in a formal way.

For the OP, this is the kind of thing:
https://www.theyachtacademy.com/zero-to-hero/

 

[[3889]]

I've sailed out of Liverpool and it is not a good place to learn at all. NWVYC on Anglesey have an active cruising programme and are welcoming. Never been a member but would recommend them based on what I've seen.
A dinghy course is a very good idea. I'm a Cruising Instructor and own a yacht but I still insisted Mrs Quiddle did a dinghy course. It allows you to do the sailing bit unconciously while concentrating on big boat stuff. You will also learn to sail more quickly with direct , and sometimes wet, feedback from the boat.
Making a comfortable living delivering or instructing on sailing, as oppossed to super, yachts is not easy. There are a lot of people, like me, who do it more for enjoyment than for income. It also can turn a pleasurable pastime into a stressful job managing crew and meeting deadlines.
Crewseekers and similar sites are a good way to get experience on boats but you are unlikely to learn to sail that way.

 

[weustace]

I have a great respect for the DIY end of yachting, but I have a number of doubts about applying it to ab initio sailing. In particular, advising someone to "Forget about the theory and just go sailing" is asking for trouble. I would suggest finding a RYA Yachtmaster Theory course (many local authorities provide them, even well away from the sea) and do that.

Then at least you will know what navigation entails, the fact that boats and big ships display lights at night and informational shapes by day and what those lights and shapes mean, how to read a chart and get information from it and how to use that information, what the weather forecasters are saying, and so on.

I fear that a seasick novice, lost, cold and alone out in the shipping lanes in bad weather, might well survive the experience and go on to be a good sailor, but possibly won't and that would be too high a price to pay. In my opinion, do the theory first (you don't HAVE to sit the exam), and then you'll have an idea what it's all about when you do get out on the 'eavin' 'oggin!

At no point did I advocate "forgetting about the theory"—I stressed that one should be "sure you know the material"—I suppose lights etc will not be very thoroughly covered in "The Complete Day Skipper", but it gives one more than sufficient introduction to how to get oneself about safely and gives one at least an intro to colregs before you do the practical course, which I recommended. I would not advocate going yachting with a totally novice or no crew at all and no practical experience of sailing of any kind, but, per my post, having some tuition before doing so (at least in British waters). I did Day Skipper as a raw recruit in 2014 or 15, without having done the theory course, but still knowing the theory, and have since progressed to YM coastal. I did YM Theory first, having mistakenly understood it to be mandatory; as one with broadly equivalent background it was a bit dull to sit through the lessons and I'd rather have spent the cash on going sailing. While it is certainly true that doing YM theory or equivalent gives one an introduction to what's involved on the water, I'd far rather trust myself to somebody with a DS practical certificate and no theory course than the other way round... if the OP has £500 in his pocket, it may well not run to both.

At no point did I advocate "buying a boat and pushing off" without having a clue about how to 'drive' it—I agree, this would be a somewhat dangerous, albeit time-honoured, strategy.

I'm sorry if this sounds defensive, but I feel your post is a sizeable mis-representation of my remarks.

Regards
William

 

[ross84]

Thanks for the welcome!

"I tried going out with the local yacht club but got shouted at a lot and it made me nervous." - yes, I sail on a lot of other people's boats and there's a significant number that are looking for crew in order to have someone to order around/score points off. (The fact they're looking for crew is a bit of a warning, in itself.) I sympathise but can't offer a solution to that. Just keep sailing with different people until you find someone with a similar outlook to yours - that can take a long time.

What's worse is that they didn't strike me as particularly competent. I couldn't wait to get off the boat tbh. I actually went to local sail club where the people seemed much sounder, but you had to own your own dinghy to really get the most out of the membership fee.

I think to summarise this thread:

Direct experience is good, but better supported with the relevant RYA qualifications.
While there may be career opportunities, it is not as simple as it sounds - don't give up day job yet.
Use dinghys to get the basics, but don't rely on them to sail cruising yachts.

 

[ross84]

Ahhh, I missed the "career" aspect. If quals may be required and money isn't tight might as well kill two birds with one stone and do a 'zero to hero' course. Although I'm not sure someone who "learns best by myself and by making my own mistakes" will enjoy that or make a good teacher in the future it would be a shame to spend 6 months learning how to cruise and then effectively repeat it in a formal way.

For the OP, this is the kind of thing:
https://www.theyachtacademy.com/zero-to-hero/

Good points above.

That course is £10,000! Is that how much it costs to become a commercially qualified yachtmaster?

 

[scruff]

I think to summarise this thread:

Direct experience is good, but better supported with the relevant RYA qualifications.
While there may be career opportunities, it is not as simple as it sounds - don't give up day job yet.
Use dinghys to get the basics, but don't rely on them to sail cruising yachts.

Yup, bang on.

Learning to make a boat go and being basically competent enough not to kill yourself is very easy and could be picked up over a weekend in the right environment/boat.

What follows on is years of learning about finesse & how to fix your boat .

In the mean time you can start threads on here along the lines of "what anchor...?" or "what's the proper flag etiquette for...?" It really riles this lot up. Make sure you have a stock of biscuits.