Heckler
Well-Known Member
Point taken, but its OK for matelot to go on about the Daily Wail? Hope you aim the missive at him also!
Stu
Stu
Knifes
- Thread starter duncanmack
- Start date
Richard Shead
Slipped Anchor
Only if you turn left....
boatmike
Well-Known Member
Out of order actually LongJohn.
It started as a thread related to sailing kit being taken in a car as I understand it and although it has drifted a bit from there with the enevitable political rant it's relevant to all of us who carry sailing kit from home to the boat regardless of the boat being a ferry or aeroplane ride away. Take note! It could be you!
It started as a thread related to sailing kit being taken in a car as I understand it and although it has drifted a bit from there with the enevitable political rant it's relevant to all of us who carry sailing kit from home to the boat regardless of the boat being a ferry or aeroplane ride away. Take note! It could be you!
Slow_boat
Well-Known Member
The law states that you can't carry in public without reasonable cause of lawful excuse any knife, the only exemption being a folding knife with a blade length of less than 3" A locking knife is not a folding knife by law. (stated case)
So, I can carry my very sharp Green River knife or leatherman on my belt on and around the boat but not in the the pub. It seems fair enough to me. Neither would I wear it on my belt when going to the boat from my home.
I posted this in detail on the lounge last week.
So, I can carry my very sharp Green River knife or leatherman on my belt on and around the boat but not in the the pub. It seems fair enough to me. Neither would I wear it on my belt when going to the boat from my home.
I posted this in detail on the lounge last week.
DavenHelen
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
So, I can carry my very sharp Green River knife or leatherman on my belt on and around the boat but not in the the pub. It seems fair enough to me. Neither would I wear it on my belt when going to the boat from my home.
[/ QUOTE ]
AFAIK there is a Leatherman without a locking blade. Please correct me if I am wrong.
So, I can carry my very sharp Green River knife or leatherman on my belt on and around the boat but not in the the pub. It seems fair enough to me. Neither would I wear it on my belt when going to the boat from my home.
[/ QUOTE ]
AFAIK there is a Leatherman without a locking blade. Please correct me if I am wrong.
Richard Shead
Slipped Anchor
I think they are very old models I had one and then nearly lost half my thumb to it so now I have a locking blade....
Slow_boat
Well-Known Member
If it has a blade less than 3" that doesn't lock it is exempt from the lawful authority or reasonable excuse i.e. you don't have to account for it.
longjohnsilver
Well-Known Member
Mike, sorry you see it that way, certainly not aimed at the whole thread or original post, which, along with almost all the replies is certainly relevant. I'm just tired of reading political stuff on a boating forum. That's all I was trying to say.
flaming
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
If it has a blade less than 3" that doesn't lock it is exempt from the lawful authority or reasonable excuse i.e. you don't have to account for it.
[/ QUOTE ]
But basically useless on a boat...
The part of this legislation that worries me is that I could very easily have a criminal record because I was sailing all day with a knife on my belt and forgot to take it off before walking into town.
If it has a blade less than 3" that doesn't lock it is exempt from the lawful authority or reasonable excuse i.e. you don't have to account for it.
[/ QUOTE ]
But basically useless on a boat...
The part of this legislation that worries me is that I could very easily have a criminal record because I was sailing all day with a knife on my belt and forgot to take it off before walking into town.
Impaler
Well-Known Member
Back to the ferry... are the sailors on board allowed to carry knives or do they have to go to the armoury to sign one out?
Slow_boat
Well-Known Member
Thats where reasonable excuse comes in.
flaming
Well-Known Member
Plod that stopped me "for a chat" inferred that in future I would have to be actually going to or from the boat and "I forgot it was on my belt" wouldn't cut it.
This was very soon after the new rules came in.
This was very soon after the new rules came in.
boatmike
Well-Known Member
No offense taken LongJohn, and none meant either. I get as fed up with off the point psuedo-politics as you do but I think you just have to ignore those posts as you get them on every thread it seems. In this case it is a bit of a political issue actually as the whole thing results from government legislation. Not that I oppose legislation in general but I do think we need to avoid the nanny state saying there is a problem with Chavs with knives so lets prevent everyone from carrying them anywhere. Some of us need them for legitimate reasons and the onus of proof of misdemeanour should be for prosecutors to prove we have a wrong intent in carrying them not for us to prove we need them.
Sailfree
Well-Known Member
Doesn't this reflect more on National attitudes.
The UK always takes the letter of the law and enforces it on everyone
The French are pragmatic, A youth in a Parios suburb would get the weapon confiscated. A man with a family going to his yacht would be ignored.
I am reminded of the EU directive of reporting incidents at sea which the UK interpreted to include loosing a fender in a Marina.
Pragmatism is still in the English dictionary but its missing in practice!!
The UK always takes the letter of the law and enforces it on everyone
The French are pragmatic, A youth in a Parios suburb would get the weapon confiscated. A man with a family going to his yacht would be ignored.
I am reminded of the EU directive of reporting incidents at sea which the UK interpreted to include loosing a fender in a Marina.
Pragmatism is still in the English dictionary but its missing in practice!!
Slow_boat
Well-Known Member
It is, IMHO, because the home office imposed targets on oilce forces and the forces impossed them on individual officers. Discretion is a rare quantity in the police these days and common sense discouraged. Taking the targets away won't help as there is a generation of management who can't manage without the figures.
In short, numbers matter more than people these days.
In short, numbers matter more than people these days.
snooks
Well-Known Member
I've been stopped a few of times coming into the country by car, I blame the company I'm with, usually a scruffy journo with a beard!! We usually go away for one or two nights and return, so two blokes in a laden car that have been away for a short periods, starts the alarm bells ringing....It's only when I get stopped that I remember my lifejacket is in the back of the car, with mini flares in it, not to mention the sailing knives we both carry, and the spare one in my car in case I forget.
Never been asked about the knives, but the ferry operator should be informed about any pyrotechnics. Now I try to remember to take the flares off before we drive over seas.
Never been asked about the knives, but the ferry operator should be informed about any pyrotechnics. Now I try to remember to take the flares off before we drive over seas.
DavenHelen
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
I think they are very old models I had one and then nearly lost half my thumb to it so now I have a locking blade....
[/ QUOTE ]
The Kick. Still seems to be current. Probably there to get around the law.
I think they are very old models I had one and then nearly lost half my thumb to it so now I have a locking blade....
[/ QUOTE ]
The Kick. Still seems to be current. Probably there to get around the law.
DRANNIE
Well-Known Member
Re: Knives
I tend to agree that if the knife is in your car with your sailing kit or you have a bag full of sailing kit and are traveling from A-B then it should not be a problem and the police should politely send you on your way.
I do however think that airline safety is another issue entirely. There is no reason why your sissors can't be packed in your hold luggage. The 9/11 bombers took 4 aircraft using 2" craft knives and slit a stewartess' throat. I don't want to be sat next to knife carrying stranger on my flight.
Equally if jo yob can't carry a 5" lock knife on his belt why should anyone else be allowed to? I don't suppose you would get away with carrying rocket flares or a shotgun around a town centre because you are wearing a musto jacket or a pair of plus fours and carrying a brace of pheasants. I don't think boat ownership is a great excuse for being a muppet.
I'll run and hide, I would mention I have forgotten about a safety knive attached to my oilies in the marina bar. Luckily there were no police there but it was a stupid thing to do.
I tend to agree that if the knife is in your car with your sailing kit or you have a bag full of sailing kit and are traveling from A-B then it should not be a problem and the police should politely send you on your way.
I do however think that airline safety is another issue entirely. There is no reason why your sissors can't be packed in your hold luggage. The 9/11 bombers took 4 aircraft using 2" craft knives and slit a stewartess' throat. I don't want to be sat next to knife carrying stranger on my flight.
Equally if jo yob can't carry a 5" lock knife on his belt why should anyone else be allowed to? I don't suppose you would get away with carrying rocket flares or a shotgun around a town centre because you are wearing a musto jacket or a pair of plus fours and carrying a brace of pheasants. I don't think boat ownership is a great excuse for being a muppet.
I'll run and hide, I would mention I have forgotten about a safety knive attached to my oilies in the marina bar. Luckily there were no police there but it was a stupid thing to do.
DavenHelen
Well-Known Member
Re: Knives
[ QUOTE ]
I would mention I have forgotten about a safety knive attached to my oilies in the marina bar. Luckily there were no police there but it was a stupid thing to do.
[/ QUOTE ]
Reminds me of the time I had come off a boat with a sailing knife in a small bag. Decided to go and visit RFA Mounts Bay which was open to the public. About to go up the gangway when asked if I had anything I shouldn't have and remembered the knife. I offered to leave it there, but they said it was Ok.
[ QUOTE ]
I would mention I have forgotten about a safety knive attached to my oilies in the marina bar. Luckily there were no police there but it was a stupid thing to do.
[/ QUOTE ]
Reminds me of the time I had come off a boat with a sailing knife in a small bag. Decided to go and visit RFA Mounts Bay which was open to the public. About to go up the gangway when asked if I had anything I shouldn't have and remembered the knife. I offered to leave it there, but they said it was Ok.
Seven Spades
Well-Known Member
Re: Knives
Well to answer your question, airplane security is a nonsense. All you have to do is go to duty free buy a bottle of brandy (Molotov cocktail) or a couple of bottles of wine, smash them together and you have weapons far more frightening than Stanley knives. If you want airport security then all duty free should be in plastic bottles and possibly no alcohol over say 20%/vol.
With regard to rules on knives, I agree it is a terrible thing that we have this sort of crime. However I would love to see some statistics on stabbings in public. I want to know the number of assailants by age. I would bet that the majority of these murders are committed by the under 20's and I would also bet that there are probably no random/criminal (IE victim unknown to assailant) murders by people over 30.
Our laws should be couched differently perhaps along American lines of not carrying a concealed weapon and possibly with an age limit e.g there would be no restriction for people over 30/5.
I see no reason why anyone should not carry any knife of any kind on the boot of their car, and they should not have to account for it at all. The way the law is being applied habeas corpus is removed, you have to prove a reasonable excuse. We have just heard that as far as least one policeman is concerned, not having emptied your car does not constitute a reasonable excuse, in his opinion you only have reasonable excuse(to have a knife in you possession) if you are on route - tosh. I often come home from the boat on a Sunday night, it is dark, I get up the next morning go to work and don't empty the boot until I get home that evening.
Locking knives - law an accident. the law say it is an offence to carry a knife unless... it is a folding knife with a blade of less than 3". the problem come from the fact that Parliament had in mind allowing pen knives but not sheath knives with fixed blades. Unfortunately the court of appeal decided that if a knife had a locking blade it was not a folding knife, which is nonsense and worse they denied leave to appeal to the House of Lords.
Well to answer your question, airplane security is a nonsense. All you have to do is go to duty free buy a bottle of brandy (Molotov cocktail) or a couple of bottles of wine, smash them together and you have weapons far more frightening than Stanley knives. If you want airport security then all duty free should be in plastic bottles and possibly no alcohol over say 20%/vol.
With regard to rules on knives, I agree it is a terrible thing that we have this sort of crime. However I would love to see some statistics on stabbings in public. I want to know the number of assailants by age. I would bet that the majority of these murders are committed by the under 20's and I would also bet that there are probably no random/criminal (IE victim unknown to assailant) murders by people over 30.
Our laws should be couched differently perhaps along American lines of not carrying a concealed weapon and possibly with an age limit e.g there would be no restriction for people over 30/5.
I see no reason why anyone should not carry any knife of any kind on the boot of their car, and they should not have to account for it at all. The way the law is being applied habeas corpus is removed, you have to prove a reasonable excuse. We have just heard that as far as least one policeman is concerned, not having emptied your car does not constitute a reasonable excuse, in his opinion you only have reasonable excuse(to have a knife in you possession) if you are on route - tosh. I often come home from the boat on a Sunday night, it is dark, I get up the next morning go to work and don't empty the boot until I get home that evening.
Locking knives - law an accident. the law say it is an offence to carry a knife unless... it is a folding knife with a blade of less than 3". the problem come from the fact that Parliament had in mind allowing pen knives but not sheath knives with fixed blades. Unfortunately the court of appeal decided that if a knife had a locking blade it was not a folding knife, which is nonsense and worse they denied leave to appeal to the House of Lords.
