Chris_Robb
Well-known member
No - he was referring to his early Westerly Fulmar - the construction of the Bav is entirely different with a grid structure bonded in.
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Keel presses in the hull of my BAVARIA 32
- Thread starter Ralph_T
- Start date
Chris_Robb
Well-known member
Not sure if it was the very first one that lost its keel, but they sure beefed up the bottoms of that one and any furture ones. I could probably find out for you as I come accross the aftersales manager from that time quite often.
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Robin
Well-known member
Oops! Sorry 'bout that. Good case for buying secondhand though, let the first owner do the de-bugging.
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Chris_Robb
Well-known member
Vyv - see my post GK29 below - where 6 jersey based GKs were grounding in cradles on each tide - one year later - bottoms very moving 2-3 inches. Theses boats were reasonably heavily built.
I remember the post you did when you were argueing about the failure of laminates - and especially carbon fibres. I took from this that ANY flexing in a GRP laminate means that on each flex a certain amount of permenant damage occures in torn or broken bonds. So any flexing will lead ultimatley to sorrow.
Applying this to keels areas flexing - this does not sound very good.
I cannot understand what could have happened to Ralphs boat - perhaps the inner grid structure was not properly bonded in? Certailny 2-3 centimeters is totally unacceptable. Hope the poor guy gets it sorted
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I remember the post you did when you were argueing about the failure of laminates - and especially carbon fibres. I took from this that ANY flexing in a GRP laminate means that on each flex a certain amount of permenant damage occures in torn or broken bonds. So any flexing will lead ultimatley to sorrow.
Applying this to keels areas flexing - this does not sound very good.
I cannot understand what could have happened to Ralphs boat - perhaps the inner grid structure was not properly bonded in? Certailny 2-3 centimeters is totally unacceptable. Hope the poor guy gets it sorted
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tcm
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Hi nicho, as far as i can see, the bav32 in question has been clunked, dropped or grauched (?) in the yard. RalphT and locals seem to be of the opinion that it should be able to "take it" and geting expert opinion to say it should be stronger whereas bav are saying nope, we have the classifications, you drop it you fix it. Questions it of course, how hard a drop, how big the supports and so on, nobody knows and as far as i know no boat test requires that it be dropped from x-height onto its keel or whatever - a racing yacht might drop to bits frexample, and if a steel boat could be droped from 12 feet no damage, that might well be seen as unnecessarily over-engineered.
Ralph seems supportive of the yardman who "has been doing the job 25 years" though that's no recommendation - anyone doing the same job for 25 years might be so utterly bad at it that he has failed to win promotion, whereas the real whizzy cranedrivers will be harbourmaster now. Maybe.
Bav wil have the more expensive lawyer and will win a court case. But their superlow build costs for a 32 would surely make it a better idea to give him a new 32, fix up his and use it at shows or whatever. Then much better publicity, and cost to bav must be only 10k tops, and they'd have a v v happy customer, instead of a pissed-off one who will broadcast as much as poss, even if/when he loses - he'll never say ah well, the judge decided against me so fair enuf.
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Ralph seems supportive of the yardman who "has been doing the job 25 years" though that's no recommendation - anyone doing the same job for 25 years might be so utterly bad at it that he has failed to win promotion, whereas the real whizzy cranedrivers will be harbourmaster now. Maybe.
Bav wil have the more expensive lawyer and will win a court case. But their superlow build costs for a 32 would surely make it a better idea to give him a new 32, fix up his and use it at shows or whatever. Then much better publicity, and cost to bav must be only 10k tops, and they'd have a v v happy customer, instead of a pissed-off one who will broadcast as much as poss, even if/when he loses - he'll never say ah well, the judge decided against me so fair enuf.
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30boat
N/A
No,of course not.I only did mine because it was an extremely cheap buy and at 22 years of age you should expect some work.I would not accept that with a new boat of wathever make.
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30boat
N/A
I would like to know that if it's not too much trouble,thanks.I think my boat was originaly sold to a french bloke,maybe that helps.
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nicho
Well-known member
Tend to agree with everything you say, especially the latter. IF it was a hull problem, then it is unthinkable that a Company the size of Bavaria (who surely must have inspected the boat) would not at the very least fix it, if not replace it. It surely must mean then, that there has been some other outside influence that has caused this damage, heavy grounding, dropping or similar.
Chris_Robb
Well-known member
OK I'll try and find out the story
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Robin
Well-known member
Sorry I hadn't realised you were talking about your Fulmar and the comment was ambiguous.
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tcm
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Yes, no matter if bav hulls are or aren't made of whatever imho, and few sail 16 competing boats and aha feels this one is slightly less flexy and the layup weights blah blah. The bad vibes regarding volvo (who are further down the road of commanding this section of powerboat engines) could easily have been nipped in the bud. The "inspection" matters not at all to the issue now, nor does assigning blame - even tho it plainly wouldn't have happened if the boat had been moved all gently gently with no crunchy noises.
Garmin a good example of how to do it, and (cos they fix/replace beyiond terms of warranty) many hereabouts are v complimentary bout their after sales and hence their products. Perhaps (dare I say!) with more justification than you are about bav - after all, nothing much has gone wrong. But the true test of customer service comes when things DO go wrong. Hence my own sneaky desire to put age-sensitive diodes which halt our products dead in their tracks 15 minutes before a service engineer arrives on site with a free replacement, teehee. I am awful. But in a nice way.
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Garmin a good example of how to do it, and (cos they fix/replace beyiond terms of warranty) many hereabouts are v complimentary bout their after sales and hence their products. Perhaps (dare I say!) with more justification than you are about bav - after all, nothing much has gone wrong. But the true test of customer service comes when things DO go wrong. Hence my own sneaky desire to put age-sensitive diodes which halt our products dead in their tracks 15 minutes before a service engineer arrives on site with a free replacement, teehee. I am awful. But in a nice way.
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vyv_cox
Well-known member
Yes, I had a GK29 for about 3-4 years. Mine was reinforced twice, once by the man who fitted it out, on the advice of the makers, and later by a yard when the boat went aground. I met a man who owned the very first one. On its maiden voyage he dried out alongside and the keel came right through the hull and finished up in the saloon. Even after the double reinforcement my hull still moved on a hard beat, letting rusty water into the bilges.
The flexing issue is true of most materials but the special properties of laminates can cause different problems. If the construction is too light it will flex more and problems can be expected as time progresses. Heavy construction flexes less, so there is reduced likelihood of this type of damage.
It seems to me that this is a most unusual case and there has to be more to it than we know. Unlike some forum members, I have nothing against Bavs and know some that have done extended and serious voyages. The fact that the majority don't experience problems of this type indicates that the general construction is adequate and that this one is (almost?) unique.
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The flexing issue is true of most materials but the special properties of laminates can cause different problems. If the construction is too light it will flex more and problems can be expected as time progresses. Heavy construction flexes less, so there is reduced likelihood of this type of damage.
It seems to me that this is a most unusual case and there has to be more to it than we know. Unlike some forum members, I have nothing against Bavs and know some that have done extended and serious voyages. The fact that the majority don't experience problems of this type indicates that the general construction is adequate and that this one is (almost?) unique.
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Gunfleet
New member
You just couldn't resist it, Chris.
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Chris_Robb
Well-known member
Talking about resting on keels, I notice that the Hunter/Legend boats come with cradles that fully support the hull, from underneath - not allowing any weight on the keel. I wonder what this means?
Like you - you buy the boat for what you want to do. I sometimes wish I had a light weight when the wind is below 15 knots - but above 20 - I am very happy with mine! I suppose you cannot have lightness and cheapness and expect 50 plus years lifespan!
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Like you - you buy the boat for what you want to do. I sometimes wish I had a light weight when the wind is below 15 knots - but above 20 - I am very happy with mine! I suppose you cannot have lightness and cheapness and expect 50 plus years lifespan!
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Chris_Robb
Well-known member
I did resist it!!!! note the conversation is about an early Westerly Fulmar!!!! the early ones had to be rebuilt by westery as there was a design cock-up
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ponapay
New member
This seems most alarming
surely any boat should be able to rest on its keel without other external support?
Most pleasure boats will at some time run aground and should not suffer damage through being supported on the keel. This strikes me as a boat not fit for its purpose?
Buyers should always be aware, and query widely the design and contruction of their chosen vessel before purchase.
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surely any boat should be able to rest on its keel without other external support?
Most pleasure boats will at some time run aground and should not suffer damage through being supported on the keel. This strikes me as a boat not fit for its purpose?
Buyers should always be aware, and query widely the design and contruction of their chosen vessel before purchase.
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30boat
N/A
Pm me when you know.Thanks again
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paulplatts
New member
On my earlier reply I did not mean to imply that a hull can not take it's full weight on the keel, just that for extended storage it would be prudent to spread the load. Some on the keel, but also some on the pads - hopefully these will be underneath internal bulkheads or stringers and also the have further supports towards the bow & stern to give stability.
I would however suspect that damage could occur to most boats if they were dropped onto their keel - thats several tons of boat onto a small area - and possibly also if striking a hard object - see the June edition of PBO.
My Bavaria seems very solid with lots of strenghtening above the keel fixing area - I would have no doubts about it's strength. It survived lots of road transportion during delivery, to Earl's Court and back etc. etc.
Seems to me like the boatyard practices need to be examined - the sort of damage you experienced would not normally occur in a boat of this type.
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I would however suspect that damage could occur to most boats if they were dropped onto their keel - thats several tons of boat onto a small area - and possibly also if striking a hard object - see the June edition of PBO.
My Bavaria seems very solid with lots of strenghtening above the keel fixing area - I would have no doubts about it's strength. It survived lots of road transportion during delivery, to Earl's Court and back etc. etc.
Seems to me like the boatyard practices need to be examined - the sort of damage you experienced would not normally occur in a boat of this type.
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G
Guest
Guest
Legends supported hulls ...
Not so long ago ... a South Coast Marina banned Legends from the hoists .... having had one fold when lifted from the water. The Hull to deck joint failed and opened up - the boat was a TCL ..... Total Constructive Loss ........ so cradling Legends and Bavs is NOT a bad idea ! Sorry !!!!!
<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ...
Bilge Keelers get up further ! I only came - cos they said there was FREE Guinness !
Not so long ago ... a South Coast Marina banned Legends from the hoists .... having had one fold when lifted from the water. The Hull to deck joint failed and opened up - the boat was a TCL ..... Total Constructive Loss ........ so cradling Legends and Bavs is NOT a bad idea ! Sorry !!!!!
<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ...
Bilge Keelers get up further ! I only came - cos they said there was FREE Guinness !
G
Guest
Guest
Another Bav Agent ....
designs his own boats, markets them and they are classics in their own right ...... that is enough to ID him ..... guess what he said about the Bavs boats he markets ..... Bav - built to a price and that's what you get ....... funny why does he sail another far more expensive boat that is smaller than a more bigger Bav that would be a great advertisement ?
<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ...
Bilge Keelers get up further ! I only came - cos they said there was FREE Guinness !
designs his own boats, markets them and they are classics in their own right ...... that is enough to ID him ..... guess what he said about the Bavs boats he markets ..... Bav - built to a price and that's what you get ....... funny why does he sail another far more expensive boat that is smaller than a more bigger Bav that would be a great advertisement ?
<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ...
Bilge Keelers get up further ! I only came - cos they said there was FREE Guinness !