Junk rigs junk?

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I find junk rigs interesting, and read that they are supposedly easily handled single-handed, but they seem to have a lot of lines to fiddle with. Reading up on the web, it seems there is a lot of bad press out for them, with much misunderstanding. Has anyone here actually ever had one or used one enough to be able to dispel the myths? I'd like to know how practical they are for short-handed, hopefully low-maintenance lifestyle? Do they perform as badly as the nay-sayers say, or as well as the lovers do? Seems around the 80s they had a bit of a bright period with Newbridge, Sunbird and a few others making them. Also, the sails themselves appear simple, so I would imagine, simple to make/repair, but being fairly rare, I guess lofts may charge extra for the speciality- any idea?

I remember a couple of months ago, someone else asking about them here, but I cant find the thread I'm thinking of.

Cheers, Jem.
 
Seem to remember a junk rigged Jester that cruised widely short or single handed.

Dont know what they would be like to windward!
 
Could have been me asking for info.
I wanted to find out the same info for reasons of bodyknackeredness, which means pulling on ropes can be a bit strenuous for me.
Didn't get much here, but been in touch with the Junk rig Assoc'n and have had the offer of a sail. Snag is that the boat is Solent based, I'm not.
I have been given the number of a Junk rig owner much closer to home, but things at home have been too hectic to arrange anything yet.
 
I found your thread, and it was familiar, but I thought there was more response; a shame, it's an interesting topic. I looked at the JRA website, but it's rather disappointingly thin: the American one (I forget where) was better, but I just found this page of Junk links...
http://web.cecs.pdx.edu/~trent/junk.html

I'll go have a look at that now.

Yes, Jester is of course a great example, and I recall another widely known, but larger boat from the 70s-80s that had 2 masts, although I can't remember it's name or whether it was a ketch or schooner. Some of the Junk propaganda I've seen around adresses the upwind issue, and that's something I'd like to hear confirmed or argued. With a lower centre of effort though, it should be able to remained powered in higher winds I'd imagine. Also, I believe the sheets are to each batten, rather than a boom, so I suspect you can trim the upper sections to maximise upwind potential.
 
The boat you are thinking of is probably Galway Blazer, built by Bill King for a circumnavigation which failed - hole made by whale plus dismasting. Subsequently sailed extensively by Peter Crowther.

The greatest benefit of the junk rig is the ability to hand and set sail without going on deck. As the sail is lowered the battens drop into lazyjacks. Each batten is controlled by a separate sheet so the twist of the sail is completely controlled. For extreme reefing one can leave just a single panel set.

There are several types of sail, some set like an aircraft wing, others are baggy between the battens and still others are virtually flat. Each has its adherents who will argue that their style is the 'right' way to go. You need to study the subject in considerable detail before deciding on what suits you. Here is a good place to start.
 
Thanks Snowleopard, that's the very link I posted myself previously, but many of the links are expired it seems. Reading through there (the one about Coin designs) I discovered Galway Blazer also, but sadly there seems to be very little info on her on the web.

What you explain/clarify helps anyway, so thankyou again.
Jem.
 
I sail a junk rigged Newbridge Pioneer and have done for six years - four based on the west coast of Skye and two on the Blackwater. As mentioned above the ability to increase or reduce sail without leaving the cockpit is the greatest advantage for which I am always thankful, particularly when sailing a friend's Bermudan rigged boat this year and attempting to claw down the mainsail in a rising gale with a lumpy sea and darkness falling - and not feeling at all safe even with two lifelines! The junk reefing system is basically failsafe. If the most highly loaded component, the halyard, fails the sail simply falls down into the lazy jacks. Every other system of reefing is fail dangerous - if a reefing line snaps on roller or slab reefing you suddenly have far more sail up than you want! Junk performance is not good to windward particularly in light winds but pretty good in a hard blow and improved noticeably by using hinged or bendy battens to give some shape to the sail.

An unanticipated bonus is the ability to carry an 8' tender on deck between the mast and the spray hood simply because the mast is so much further forward than with a normal rig and there's no kicking strap to get in the way. Generally components are under low stress and easily repaired/replaced. North Sea Sails in Tollesbury have no problems working on a junk sail.
 
Hi Jem
I've sailed a great deal on a friends 35ft junk ketch and for most of the time its a doddle. Having sailed across the North sea several times if I had to say they have a fault then its that they lack 'bite'. Down wind is a dream, we would gybe the sails willy nilly just to see what it was like with the sails gull winged on this side or that and with no thought of easing the sail over....just turn the wheel !....the sails seem to have very little pressure on them...... As the wind moves forward then the system comes more to resemble an ordinary Bermudian rig , especialy when fitted with the bendy batons, though again the sails have a low pressure feel and reefing as said above is very very simple. The real weakness of the rig comes as the wind moves forward again and though with the articulated batons we could tack on about 100 degrees the boat would never develope that 'bite' as yor bore slightly away that you would get with an ordinary rig. And to be fair a lot of sailing is sailing into the wind , if this could be refind then the rig would be an absolute winner. The fabric of the rig is also simplicity as nothing relies on technology or design, indeed to some extent its just bits of cloth and string and within reason once the sails are set you can push and pull on the bits and pieces but it wont change much because it goes as it goes as it goes......most of the ropes are choosen for feel in use as any old rope will do and mostly the cheap polyprops are better because of their slipperyness and the sails are flat panels lacking in cunning or shape so mostly very very easy to repair if need be . Though because of a lack in pressure seldom damaged except by wear. All in all a very easy and cheap rig that needs little input or skill to use.......though having said all this my boat has a bermudian rig and thats the way it will stay!
If you want to chat to my mate about his boat then pm me your e-mail and i'll send you his number.
 
Hmmm, seen something like that down in the Solent some years back Snowleaopard, I'm sure it's very simple once set up, but until then... and I don't even want to think about cost (initial or otherwise).

This is all interesting stuff though, and someof my main questions have been answered now- thanks for the note re: N Sea Sails in Tollesbury, being in Suffolk, that's most convenient. A shame though that it seems the main naysay seems to be true, about the upwind ability, and from that the reference to lack of feel of bite. Sounds like one of the main "thrills" of sailing is taken away! OK, so "thrills" are not always what's wanted; esp in a blow or on an offshore transit, but a bit of adrenalin is quite important at most times. Downwind I typically find the most boring part of sailing: don't think I could cope with a TransAtlantic of pure downwind! So I wonder if this would liven it up, or just leave me in a compromise situation.

Jem.
 
By the way, I think I paid attention to your thread Tommyrot, as about the time I read it, I was in Stavanger, and saw this sail by, I think it is Johanna, as shown on the JRA website (?), and it sailed wonderfully, a fairly old hull, leaving the more modern bermudans in it's wake in a blow- I was most impressed.

Johannasm.jpg


Jem.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Downwind I typically find the most boring part of sailing: don't think I could cope with a TransAtlantic of pure downwind!

[/ QUOTE ]

I did a tradewind crossing of the Atlantic and didn't find the downwind sailing at all boring. For several days we were averaging 9 knots with regular spells of 11+. The time we hit 17 and overtook the wave in front bringing green water over the deck provided enough adrenaline for several days.
 
Being a newcomer to sailing, I'm fairly open to ideas like the junk rig. It does seem to be a more "gentle" method of sailing, much less stress on rig and crew!

.....and I've always been a bit "different"! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
Thankyou alot Saphirex, that's interesting material again, and I've started reading deeper into it. I wouldn't personally go for a wooden one, or traditionally styled vessel, but the rig itself is of definate interest.
I wouldn't exactly say (referring to the sidebar on the JDP site) that they are exactly common in HK! I think there's maybe 3, one of which is run as a promotion (as on all the postcards- was sporting a "Glenfiddich" sail at the handover!) and another a westerner's toy/home, which I guess was an aesthetic issue more than anything. Admittedly they do get seen in mainland China a fair bit though- the old tarp and blue checked plastic sheeting being testament to the simple sail tech!
Am presently waiting for some info from the JRA.
Cheers, Jem.
 
There is of course the question, IF junk rigs are so good, why arnt they more popular? Adopted by Volvo boat for instance, or Day Mellon for her projects?
 
People are probably scared (like I should be, but keep not doing so) of buying something that is unusual/specialist, that may then be awkward to sell on afterwards.


This is probably my biggest fear of all, more indeed than the possibly inferior upwind performance. (I've seen good evidence of down/beam sailing as well, if not better).

Jem.
 
If this is the main fear make sure that you buy your boat at the right price. My junk rigged boat cost about £4000 less than the equivalent bermudan rigged craft. If and when I come to sell it I would expect to do so at a similarly lower price. In the meantime with no standing rigging to be renewed and generally much lower maintenance costs I think the economics work well. However, converting a boat aready bermudan rigged to junk could indeed be a costly exercise.
 
I've noticed this in boats where both rigs are available, and can appreciate that a lower sale price may be balanced out by the lower purchase price, but at the far end, the time taken to sell is an issue also. However your opinting out about lower maintenance and so on is a good point too.

Are downhauls typically fitted also to enable reefing in case of pressure on the sail?

Thanks, Jem.
 
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