IT employment - totally NB

[snowleopard]

castaway's misfortunes got me wondering.

when i headed off across the pond in 2001, IR35 had just kicked in. when i came back the IT market in general and contracting in particular had totally collapsed. 2 years on i'm out of touch, has the market revived or is it still dead?

incidentally i have recently discovered that i could earn more as a contract brickie than ever i did in IT and no one is trying to apply IR35 to them.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[LadyInBed]

It’s still on its back as far as I'm concerned here in the SW. I did 3 months around last Christmas but nothing has come my way since.
I'm thinking of setting up as a self employed ‘handy andy’ odd jobber.


<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[bedouin]

In London the permie market is looking up - there is a shortage of good candidates, but that has not yet fed through to the sort of massive salary increases last seen in 1999.

Contract market is improving, but rates appear to be well down on the peak.

 

[LadyInBed]

Great! Giz us a job then, but not in London /forums/images/icons/cool.gif

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Guest]

Post deleted by danfoley

 

[tcm]

yep agreed. But more widely, it is no longer believes that IT is the Great Future as per pre-dotcom crash - IT is just biztools like vans and machinery, and hence even quite decent outfits with g'teed cashflow trades low with less impetus to plan great things and employ huge numbers speculatively.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[jimboaw]

IT security specialists are very much in demand this side of the pond. My daughter, M.Sc , CISPA seems to be fighting off headhunters on a weekly basis. Damn good thing too as I expect her to keep SWMBO and I and the boat afloat

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[jimboaw]

IT security specialists are very much in demand this side of the pond. My daughter, M.Sc , CISPA seems to be fighting off headhunters on a weekly basis.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Its_Only_Money]

"and no one is trying to apply IR35 to them."

You sure? - I thought IR35 was applied to the construction trades first, then the IR moved their sights onto IT???? Or maybe that was a myth they put about to make the IT'ers feel better......

<hr width=100% size=1>Rgds

Simon
Its Only Money
Fairline Sprint
Solent-based

 

[[2068]]

Agree, my job status is probably now on a par with a plumber, no disrespect to plumbers intended. This wasn't always going to be the case - IT was going to be the new "profession" ... doctor, lawyer, headmaster, computor ? but mainly due to over-inflated hype (which eroded credibility) and the lack of widely recognised accreditation , this hasn't happened.

Probably the best role in IT today is to be an "outsourcing consultant", whose job is to advise businesses on how to sack all their IT staff, and transfer the all the work to Mumbai at 25% of the original cost. You charge £2000 per day, leave 100 broken careers behind you, and move on.

defence related industries do tend to see the one potential flaw in this approach...

dv.

 

[Peppermint]

Re: Me Thinks

your english bond and your speed better be pretty damn good to earn comparitive dosh. Maybe on the new terminal at Heathrow but not building houses in the provinces. You'll pay your tax as well.

Now kitchen fitting. You can make a grand a 4 day week your good.

Y2K proved to most companies that UK contractors were a bit of a luxury. One big bank I know well used 50% Croat & 50% Indian contractors to solve the problem. They learnt from that. One IT director told me that between Y2K and provision for disaster recovery his budget would be tied up until 2007/8.


<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[john_morris_uk]

What on earth is the "permie market"?

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[tcm]

IT employment could be split into "contractors" which are temporary for few weeks or usually months, and "permanent" staff or "permie".

 

[[2068]]

Only contractors call permanent staff "permies"...

dv.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Rowana]

It would appear that the pure IT sector is a bit dead here in NE Scotland as well.

However, I was involved in Computerised Maintenance Management Systems & Maintenance planning, and although I "Retired" in March 2003, partially due to the IR35 thing, I got a job (PAYE) last winter for 3 days a week. I had the summer off again, and got a fair bit of sailing in, then was headhunted by my old boss, who has moved on to a new company, and started on Monday this week, full time for 4 to 5 months. Should be finished in time for the next sailing season! !

It seems that there is a bit of a shortage in SOME specialised areas such as mine. Lucky for me ! !

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[ChrisE]

I'd agree with the above, the market has fragmented into specialists who are in demand and still earn extremely good money and the foot soldiers, who don't. The days of the analyst/programmer generalist contractor earning twice or three times those around him are gone.

The areas that seem to be active are procurement, management and specialist skills such as security or testing and some widely available packages such as SAP. The public sector, especially the NHS, is fairly bouyant. There are some signs of growth in the private sector but, as has been noted elsewhere, largely in London.

Personally, I wouldn't feel too downhearted, as for some areas such as testing, a good A/P background and commonsense will get you a long way, in my experience.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[jonjo]

The market has improved from its worst state and on my team we are concerned about loosing promissing younger programmers once more.

Over the past year we have recruited up some senior programmers who found the job market tough because their CVs did not suit the latest requirements. For example after 20 years of paying lip service to software methodologies employers seriously demand OO design methods today.

If you have got too far behind the technology curve I suggest a switch into technical QA. There is a shortage people with a natural technical aptitude for driving the latest range of big-budget automated QA tools.

<hr width=100% size=1><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by jonjo on 18/11/2004 09:45 (server time).</FONT></P>

 

[bedouin]

In fact it is fairly common slang in departments that have a significant numbers of contractors and permanent employees. There is no single word (noun) that can be used otherwise

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[BlueSkyNick]

I am more of a telecomms than IT man, and provide business programme management rather than a technical specialism. Having finished my previous role, I found it hard during the summer to find a new assignment. I succeeded in the end, and although the current job has its drawbacks, the rate is relatively good.

When I was searching, I was offered work at BT for 40% of my asking rate. The agencies were under strict instructions not to go any higer, on the basis that somebody, somewhere would be prepared to do it. Peanuts and monkies come to mind.

Going via agencies is a complete lottery, anyway - they are one step higher up the ladder than estate agents, who are only just above pond life in my not very humble opinion.

There is work around, its just much harder to find it.

IR35 is still a major concern, but can be avoided, by being very careful about T's & C's, nature of the role undertaken etc - you need to understand the rules to know how to play the game. Until there is sufficient precedent set by the IR being successful in the cases going through the courts, it will remain unclear.

Another major threat, is the treatment of husband and wife owned companies - but that's another story.

While the tax/NI issues have caused problems, these are secondary to the general down turn in industry, particularly in telecomms. Even the Big5 and medium range consultancies are struggling, which can be both a help and a hindrance to us smaller companies.

The there is the dreaded ageism to contend with, and the need to keep up with technological developments. All in all, I can see myself jacking it in, and taking up the simple life before too long.

Dunno about brickies, but a reputable plumber in our area costs £300+ per day.



<hr width=100% size=1>I can't be bothered with a footnote - it's usually rubbish anyway.

 

[ChrisE]

Now lookie here, Nick, I expect to be working until the earlier of my PC falls apart/fingers drop off/mortgage gets paid off and I'd guess at 53 I'm a good few years older than you. So I don't expect to be hearing any more of this 'simple life' stuff.

<hr width=100% size=1>