Is this normal? Advice please

[whiskeypapa]

We have recently reluctantly put our nearly new boat on the market privately and have been inundated with offers from Brokers to sell our boat. Some say they are short of stock(can that be?) Some say we will have more success selling through a Broker as buyers don't like to hand over money to individuals(is this correct?). Can they really find us buyers when they are in the UK and our boat is in the Med? Do Brokers go through the ads and offer their services to all new advertisers?We think that maybe because we have offered our boat for sale at what we think is a very fair price that they just think it may be easy for them to sell(possible?) As we have only just advertised, should we wait and see for a while or are we making a mistake not using a Broker. Any advice welcome

 

[colingr]

Situation normal.

We've had more inquiries from brokers than anyone else.

They're just after their commission, bless.

Having said that, if you get a good broker they can take a lot of the running out of the process for you.

I leave it to others to name and shame the good / bad ones.

 

[Canopy Locked]

I've nearly succumbed to the broker approach (stock is short, we've got someone looking for a boat like yours, etc), and I've even had offers of commission down to 4%... but just cannot shake off the idea that it's an expensive route to go down.

Possibly worth it where the broker is directly involved and doing a lot of work, handling enquiries and showing folk over the boat, but if they're 100's of miles away from the boat and doing nothing but post an internet ad (many of which are really rubbish) and deal with the paperwork... is that really worth several thousand pounds...???

I have posted a web page for my boat and am tracking the hits, getting several hits a day via google searches, and if I have to trim my price to get a bite at least I am still ahead of where I'd be after the broker has their commission.

 

[asteven221]

Yup normal. Just looking for your business.

Personally I think that if people are looking to buy an expensive item like a boat, they will do research and that will almost certainly lead them to the internet. That means they will see your advert along with everyone elses including the brokers. If your boat doesn't sell DIY then I doubt a broker will shift it either.

Another point I feel in favour for the DIY seller is if a boat is advertised by a broker for say £100k and they get the inevitable offer of say £90k then the buyer pays £90k, the broker gets about 8% plus vat i.e. £8460 and you get £81540. Personally I have always sold my boats myself via the internet and advertised them for at a realistic price. In the example above I would have probably advertised privately at about £85k, thus attracting interest as it looks cheap compared to the top line advertised prices elsewhere. I can't really see the point in asking an inflated price as it is very unlikely someone will come along and pay the advertised price. You might get lucky though!

As an illustration. I have a pal that bought a brand new boat for nearly £200k. Decided he didn't like it and bought another one. That was about two years ago and he still has the original boat. Now my point is that it's advertised by the broker at £180k but he offered it to me for £150k. So my logic suggests that if he is happy to accept £150k from me, then why the heck advertise it himself for £150k and sell it? Why not ask a million, because it won't make a blind bit of difference. Nobody will pay it anyway.

 

[whiskeypapa]

Yes, I hear what you say and your figures make sense. Our boat is nearly new and I have studied the internet to find similar boats advertised and I have put an asking price well below that of similar boats so I hope to get some response privately .

 

[Tranona]

The only thing that matters is the net proceeds you receive from the sale. The amount you pay the broker is irrelevant if you get a higher price with less effort than trying to sell it yourself.

It is true that there is a shortage of good late model boats because people are not buying new boats so there is a reduction in trade ins. New prices are rising so a nearly new boat looks attractive. If the market is "international" for your style of boat you would be foolish to ignore good brokers. Just ask them what price they would market your boat at and how they would do it. Then decide whether you think you would be able to achieve the same on your own, taking into account the cost of marketing and the hassle of dealing with potential buyers, particularly if you are remote from the boat.

Remember brokers have a long list of potential buyers - you have none so have to generate them yourself - and deal with all the time wasters.

Why are you offering your boat at less than the asking price of comparable boats? Is there something wrong with it, or are you desparate? This does not make sense. As I said, surely the key objective is to finds a buyer thast yields the maximum to you. Offering it privately at less than the going rate will not achieve this.

 

[whiskeypapa]

We are asking at a price to sell because we want to sell it relatively quickly. We have had a change of circumstance - not financial - we just don't want the responsibility at present and much as we don't like losing money, which is inevitable, it is worth it to us to take a lower price and just get it sold. We have advertised it already - it is with ybw Ref. y46728 and http://apolloduck.net/132988
I take on board what you say about Brokers and if we don't have any luck we will have to try to find a good one - any suggestions?

 

[kingfisher]

A broker can be worth his money. They can deal with the tire kickers, the people who want to visit on saturday morning at 0900, or on a thursday afternoon.
- do they valet the boat
- do they charge for hard standing/crane
- what happens if *you* find a buyer?
- what happens if a potential buyer wants to see the boat? I gather the boat is in Alicante, and you in the UK?

 

[whiskeypapa]

You are right Kingfisher - however we are free to show the boat ourselves being retired but cannot imagine a broker doing that. Would it be better to return boat to UK or are people in Europe still buying?

 

[CX54WEK]

Your appollo duck advert could do with some work.

There is little info on the boat.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

You are right Kingfisher - however we are free to show the boat ourselves being retired but cannot imagine a broker doing that. Would it be better to return boat to UK or are people in Europe still buying?

Thats an interesting question. When I was selling a Fairline (Targa 48) in SoF a few years ago, I got no takers so I decided to take advantage of a cheap return load transport price and ship her back to the UK where she sold very quickly. On the other hand, I sold my next boat, an Azimut, very quickly in Majorca. My current boat, which is a Ferretti, has been on the market in the Med many months and I haven't sold her yet but I would never consider bringing her back to the UK for sale because nobody has heard of Ferretti in the UK
To answer your question, I think if your boat is a popular model from a well known UK builder, it may be worth considering bringing her back to the UK for sale. Generally, British boats sell best in the UK. Also the selling season seems to be longer in the UK. In the Med there seems to be a frenzy of activity in Spring when everybody wants to set themselves up with a boat for the summer and little or no activity throughout the rest of the year. In your specific case, Sealine is less well known in the Med than in the UK and I would definitely consider shipping her back to the UK. Perhaps the best policy is to leave her in the Med thru Spring and early Summer and, if she doesn't sell, consider bringing her back in time for the Southampton boat show as there is a flurry of sales activity around this time. Maybe even stick her in one of the used boat shows that happen around the same time
As to whether to use a broker, I would say the more expensive the boat the more necessary it becomes to sell through a broker. We can argue all day about the risks of selling through a broker (and we have done recently on this forum) but there's no question that many buyers feel more secure buying thru a broker. Apart from that, a good broker should get your boat in front of many more potential buyers than advertising privately does. As tranona says, the broker's commission is immaterial. What counts is what you get in your pocket at the end of the day and a good broker may get a higher price than you could get selling privately. In any case some buyers of privately advertised boats factor in that the seller is not having to pay broker's commission and lower their offer accordingly.

 

[Nick_H]

I'm firmly with Robmchugh and Asteven221 on this, though it's interesting to see the distictly different opinion from Tranona and Deleted User. I've always sold boats privately, on the basis that I can reduce the asking price by what I would have paid the broker, and get a quicker sale. I don't accept that a broker can get more people to see the ad, because any serious buyer will do an internet search and will therefore know of every single boat of a particular model/age that's for sale either privately or through a broker.

If you think potental buyers may be nervous about buying privately, then put on the advert that the transaction will be completed by a solicitor with an escrow account, still loads cheaper than paying a broker.

Personally I find using agents frustrating, so i'd sooner sell privately even if the broker offered to do it for free, but then I negotiate for a living so am always more comfortable when i'm talking to a potential buyer directly, rather than through an intermediary who may be slow to respond, doesn't know the boat well enough, or can't differentiate between serious buyers and fender kickers.

Regardless of all the above, I can't see the point of using a UK broker to sell a boat that's physically in Spain, that's just nuts. If you want to use a broker, find one near to where the boat is, that can at least show potential buyers round.

 

[whiskeypapa]

Very interesting to hear various opinions and proving very helpful. To CX54WEK - interested in your comment - thought the information was concise but informative - what other info do you think we should give on our advert?

 

[gjgm]

If you are selling privately, I think it is critical that you are, and appear, totally professional. Rightly or wrongly, thats what people expect of a broker.
So you need a good advert;take out a web page and use the intranet sites to link to it.
Get personal. We know its a boat with a pointy end and a blunt end, so tell something we dont know. What its really good at.. sunbathing,cruising, privacy of guests,best spec engines.. whatever. But you need to create the interest, and not be just boat number 25 on someone's list. You want to be boat number one of his list.You want to be boat 1 on everyone's list.
NickH has a great point on security.. show you mean business and will remove any money concerns. Show you know what you are doing, and not just scrimping. You need to invest some money,maybe not alot, but a good web page, a good description,good contact availability, and when someone rings, you are the most service minded person out there.
Having said all that, I do agree a broker can be an asset.
Lastly, be realistic;boats dont sell quickly.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

I'm firmly with Robmchugh and Asteven221 on this, though it's interesting to see the distictly different opinion from Tranona and Deleted User. I've always sold boats privately, on the basis that I can reduce the asking price by what I would have paid the broker, and get a quicker sale. I don't accept that a broker can get more people to see the ad, because any serious buyer will do an internet search and will therefore know of every single boat of a particular model/age that's for sale either privately or through a broker.

If you think potental buyers may be nervous about buying privately, then put on the advert that the transaction will be completed by a solicitor with an escrow account, still loads cheaper than paying a broker.

Personally I find using agents frustrating, so i'd sooner sell privately even if the broker offered to do it for free, but then I negotiate for a living so am always more comfortable when i'm talking to a potential buyer directly, rather than through an intermediary who may be slow to respond, doesn't know the boat well enough, or can't differentiate between serious buyers and fender kickers.

Regardless of all the above, I can't see the point of using a UK broker to sell a boat that's physically in Spain, that's just nuts. If you want to use a broker, find one near to where the boat is, that can at least show potential buyers round.

Yes obviously if you're willing to put the leg work in getting your boat on to every boat sales website, then I guess selling privately could get you a better price. I have sold boats privately as well and I found it a pain. I think it's very crucial how far away from your boat that you live. I sold my last UK boat, a Broom, privately mainly because there's a very specific market for a Broom. I don't know how many times I schlapped 2 hours down to Southampton to show prospective buyers the boat but it was a good many times and on a couple of occasions, the prospective buyers didn't turn up, which, of course, is very frustrating. And buyers don't just want to see your boat at weekends, it's weekdays too which means taking time off work, in my case. Then there are the dreamers you have to deal with too. I had one very nice middle aged couple who looked at the boat, wanted a sea trial there and then and declared they wanted to buy the boat but not until they retired in a couple of years time and could I keep it for them until then! Even selling my RIB last year was a pain because of the distance that I live from the S Coast.
I came to the conclusion that devoting the hours that I wasted showing prospective buyers around my boat to running my business would probably generate more income than it would cost me in broker's fees!
Of course, it's different if you live close to your boat or have plenty of spare time

 

[Nick_H]

Whiskeypapa, having said all I have about not wanting to use brokers, there is actually another very good reason to use one if your boat is in Spain. The brokers in the med have managed to do what estate agents have done in the UK, and ensure that only agents can post adverts on the main web sites that buyers use (though often the buyers don't realise this). So if you want to be on Mondial Broker for instance (and you definitely do), you need to register the boat with a broker so they can put an advert on.

 

[Tranona]

Think this really is a job for an international broker. The potential buyer will almost cetainly be a Northern European so will have to visit specifically to see the boat. You need to get access to a much wider audience than through an Appollo Duck ad. Look for a broker who works internationally and has a local office as well. and set the price sensibly. Why only £195k for a virtually new boat that new would be £250k? Brokers will fall over themselves to list such a boat - so ask them what they will do to get you business. Better to spend your time finding the right broker than trying to generate and deal with potential buyers yourself.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Think this really is a job for an international broker. The potential buyer will almost cetainly be a Northern European so will have to visit specifically to see the boat. You need to get access to a much wider audience than through an Appollo Duck ad. Look for a broker who works internationally and has a local office as well. and set the price sensibly. Why only £195k for a virtually new boat that new would be £250k? Brokers will fall over themselves to list such a boat - so ask them what they will do to get you business. Better to spend your time finding the right broker than trying to generate and deal with potential buyers yourself.

I think you're right. This boat will sell much better in N Europe but I don't think most Northern European buyers are going to bother going to Alicante to view the boat when there are so many on the market located in N Europe. Thats probably demonstrated by the fact that it hasn't sold yet despite being loaded with equipment and having so few hours. IMHO, it has to come back to the UK and maybe then the asking price can be increased too

 

[whiskeypapa]

Deleted User thank you for your continuing advice. We have only had it on the market about nine days.
Tranona, the reason we are asking only this pice is to hopefully catch someone,s attention as to what a good buy it is!

 

[Canopy Locked]

How to spot a "good" broker?

Just thinking of brokers got me looking back thro' my e-mails.

12 days ago I received an e-mail contract from a broker who was keen to sign me up - they have a boat I'd quite like and I'd been in contact with them. I have not responded to the e-mail at all - they have not been in contact with me again.

My thinking is that if they have not followed up an enquiry from me in 12 days, would they follow up an enquiry from a "punter"?... seems to me if they can't be bothered with me, can they be bothered with a potential buyer?

So, possible test for a "good" broker??? ..... ask for their contract form and wait and see who follows up your enquiry and (just as importantly IMHO) in what manner they follow it up.. pushy / helpful etc..