Is there a standard IEC or other electrical code for European boats?

[thinwater]

ABYC is common in the US ... when it is followed.

I do know the basic IEC and Chinese standards, but is there a specific ISO-like ABYC? I've searched and searched, but maybe I have US focused search engine.
(just to make it fun in the US, cars and RVs both follow a different codes)

 

[Refueler]

Conforming to Codes (other than the original build) usually depends on use of the craft.

Here in Latvia - for older craft such as my 1973 Motor Sailer - they don't require any Builders CE or whatever. But if I was to register as a boat that conducts Rental / Training / any commercial activity - then it would be subject to conformity to standards and codes I don't have the data as I don't cross that 'line' - it can be expensive to bring an older boat up to coding.
When application is made here - Ships Register appoint their Inspector to visit and survey the boat - then he writes a report and any reccd's needed to comply. His report will state the relevant Code / subsection / paragraph etc. of Latvian rules.

If a boat is not so old and has all the Builders CE etc. - then the inspection is purely to verify and to list the additions required to comply with declared / intended use. Again report will state the relevant Code / subsection / paragraph etc. of Latvian rules.

I would say that USA reqt's as you highlight are greater than we have here ... particularly if the boat is intended for coastal .. If boat is Inland Waterways - then Uk especially has quite a lot of specs to comply with.

One of the biggest hassles - in EU - is that following one states req'ts does not necessarily mean boat is accepted against another states reqt;'s ... ie if you decide to change register ... so trying to list as you do for USA - would be difficult.

I've recently gone through this with my later addition to the 'fleet' ... and previously with my older Motor Sailer. The Motor Sailer came from UK to Latvia n 2007 while both states were EU. When SSR was refused - I had to change to Latvian Register - and is when I came to see the above. Full inspection - they issued report - I had changes to make to the boat - receipts for the purchase of items etc.
The 38 earlier this year was from Sweden and Latvia refused to register as it was 2nd hand without any registration ... they only accept a 'CHANGE' of registry for Latvian.... unless its a new boat. Therefore boat was put via Swedish Cruising Assoc onto Swedish International Register. This now will be changed later to Latvian to comply with Latvian Govt intentions to outlaw 'other flags' based in Latvian harbours with Latvian Residents. This will then incur Inspection and report of reqt's etc.

Unfortunately I don't still have the older boats report ... so I cannot give details from it.

NOTE : The above applies to Latvia EU only - I have no idea about other EU states.

 

[PaulRainbow]

ABYC is common in the US ... when it is followed.

I do know the basic IEC and Chinese standards, but is there a specific ISO-like ABYC? I've searched and searched, but maybe I have US focused search engine.
(just to make it fun in the US, cars and RVs both follow a different codes)

The relevant ISO for the UK and EU is ISO13297. Only applicable to new build boats, there is no mandatory code for working on anything other that new builds, but it would be wise to follow the code voluntarily, IMO.

Previously, there were separate ISOs for AC (13297) and DC (10133) installations, more recently ones include both in a single document (13297).

Older AC ISO13297 https://xanthiona.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/iso-13297-ac-current.pdf
Older DC ISO10133 http://www.siranah.de/manuals/ISO10133.pdf

 

[wonkywinch]

The relevant ISO for the UK and EU is ISO13297. Only applicable to new build boats, there is no mandatory code for working on anything other that new builds, but it would be wise to follow the code voluntarily, IMO.

Previously, there were separate ISOs for AC (13297) and DC (10133) installations, more recently ones include both in a single document (13297).

Older AC ISO13297 https://xanthiona.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/iso-13297-ac-current.pdf
Older DC ISO10133 http://www.siranah.de/manuals/ISO10133.pdf

Thank you for the reference Paul. I would have liked to refer to that but it's a shame they want CHF145 (£133) for a 34 page pdf file

https://www.iso.org/obp/ui/en/#iso:std:69551:en

 

[Refueler]

Thank you for the reference Paul. I would have liked to refer to that but it's a shame they want CHF145 (£133) for a 34 page pdf file

https://www.iso.org/obp/ui/en/#iso:std:69551:en

All standards Organisations want payment for their 'docs' .... you should see the costs for my work !!

ASTM Vol 5
IP
BS-EN-ISO

It runs into thousands ..... and they get revised regularly ...

A cheaper way to get a copy - can sometime be via Public Library .... when I ran my labs - if we were asked to conduct an obscure or a version of test that was not in our files - I would send person to Library to acquire and copy.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

All standards Organisations want payment for their 'docs' .... you should see the costs for my work !!

ASTM Vol 5
IP
BS-EN-ISO

It runs into thousands ..... and they get revised regularly ...

A cheaper way to get a copy - can sometime be via Public Library .... when I ran my labs - if we were asked to conduct an obscure or a version of test that was not in our files - I would send person to Library to acquire and copy.

I don't know about Latvia, but copying like that is illegal (both civil and criminal law, I understand) in the UK, and no library would allow it. You can copy up to 10% of a publication under fair use regulations, but beyond that, it is not allowed. It's less than that for a map or chart - the area copied must be too small to be used for navigation; generally a few square cm.. Certainly in the UK, libraries that provide copying services (such as academic libraries) are very hot on that; I encountered it once or twice when I wanted 2 or three papers from the same issue of a journal (one paper generally fits within the 10%!). Stuff like standards publications tends to be in the reference collection, so you can't take it away to copy.

Again, I don't know about other countries, but the BSI is required to be self-funding; the funding comes from the sale of standards. You can imagine that most standards have VERY low readerships! And pretty much all the members of standards committees (nearly all from industry or academia if that's relevant) are self-funding; their employer pays their expenses and salary while attending meetings or working on the text. There's usually only one staff member of BSI at a meeting; there may be a paid secretary as well, usually if the secretary is a freelance worker. ISO committees are made up of national members; again their expenses etc. are paid by their employer, not by the national body. But of course, there are hundreds of committees, and supporting them - even though most members are funded by other bodies - needs a fair bit of money!

I may have some of the details wrong - it's now 12 years since I ceased to serve on BSI and ISO committees - but the general outline is correct.

 

[Refueler]

I don't know about Latvia, but copying like that is illegal (both civil and criminal law, I understand) in the UK, and no library would allow it. You can copy up to 10% of a publication under fair use regulations, but beyond that, it is not allowed. It's less than that for a map or chart - the area copied must be too small to be used for navigation; generally a few square cm.. Certainly in the UK, libraries that provide copying services (such as academic libraries) are very hot on that; I encountered it once or twice when I wanted 2 or three papers from the same issue of a journal (one paper generally fits within the 10%!). Stuff like standards publications tends to be in the reference collection, so you can't take it away to copy.

Again, I don't know about other countries, but the BSI is required to be self-funding; the funding comes from the sale of standards. You can imagine that most standards have VERY low readerships! And pretty much all the members of standards committees (nearly all from industry or academia if that's relevant) are self-funding; their employer pays their expenses and salary while attending meetings or working on the text. There's usually only one staff member of BSI at a meeting; there may be a paid secretary as well, usually if the secretary is a freelance worker. ISO committees are made up of national members; again their expenses etc. are paid by their employer, not by the national body. But of course, there are hundreds of committees, and supporting them - even though most members are funded by other bodies - needs a fair bit of money!

I may have some of the details wrong - it's now 12 years since I ceased to serve on BSI and ISO committees - but the general outline is correct.

I was formerly actually Baltic Regional Manager of BSI - Inspectorate. With additional remit to assist North Russia. While also having own Labs etc. to complement those I created for BSI Insp.
I was also a Member of ASTM along with Committees.

 

[wonkywinch]

I know the 18th edition original regs cost similar amounts from the IET but was pleased to find they do indeed publish a condensed "on site" version which I trust is more digestible in the same way the 18th edition is in it's lightweight form. £30 from the IET.

The IET Shop - On-Board Guide: Electrical Safety for Small Craft

 

[Refueler]

The other way of course is to get a decent book describing how to setup a boats electrics etc. They usually then quote relevant snippet of the regs sufficient to show just cause etc. If not - their advice would most likely be acceptable to the standards.

 

[Refueler]

I was formerly actually Baltic Regional Manager of BSI - Inspectorate. With additional remit to assist North Russia. While also having own Labs etc. to complement those I created for BSI Insp.
I was also a Member of ASTM along with Committees.

Which Inspectorate is now part of Bureau Veritas. BSI sold off Inspectorate ... (it was never really a good marriage).

 

[AntarcticPilot]

I was formerly actually Baltic Regional Manager of BSI - Inspectorate. With additional remit to assist North Russia. While also having own Labs etc. to complement those I created for BSI Insp.
I was also a Member of ASTM along with Committees.

Clearly I was teaching Granny to suck eggs! I was involved with the standard making and revising side. In my field there was no BSI based enforcement; adopting them was a no-brainer to ensure interoperability and in my work with ISO we worked closely with equivalent IEEE committees; often we adopted each other's standards; IEEE were glad of it because their standards process was less rigorous than the ISO one, but quicker, and I attended some IEEE meetings where it was relevant (I was responsible for a small but significant change that would affect the behaviour of systems at the 180 degree meridian; the problem was once illustrated very well by a forumite who found that objects near the 180 degree meridian weren't being displayed on his chart plotter!!).

 

[rogerthebodger]

Slight thread drift

In the UK or EU are the published legislation copyrighted and is hansard copyrighted if so who holds the copyright

 

[Refueler]

Clearly I was teaching Granny to suck eggs! I was involved with the standard making and revising side. In my field there was no BSI based enforcement; adopting them was a no-brainer to ensure interoperability and in my work with ISO we worked closely with equivalent IEEE committees; often we adopted each other's standards; IEEE were glad of it because their standards process was less rigorous than the ISO one, but quicker, and I attended some IEEE meetings where it was relevant (I was responsible for a small but significant change that would affect the behaviour of systems at the 180 degree meridian; the problem was once illustrated very well by a forumite who found that objects near the 180 degree meridian weren't being displayed on his chart plotter!!).

One of the biggest problems with Standards and its rife in the Petrochemical world - testing can be stipulated under various bodies instruments ... a veritable minefield.

But one aspect - is that many tests / standards were adopted by other organisations - rewritten of course ... to avoid all the foundation work to create.

Part of my work still today is to 'enlighten' clients that an ASTM test produces same or similar results to IP or another standard. The one standard that does not cross over so easily is GOST whether it be Russian (GOST R) Chinese (GOST C) etc.

But anyway -its digressing from electrical etc.

 

[thinwater]

I can see both sides.

As an engineer, I worked on standards development in petroleum. It is a LOT of work, more than you can imagine, and is paid for by publication fees, and the actual work is mostly underwritten by industry. The true cost of standards is high.

As a writer, I need to read standards to be sure I have my fact right. Also, when testing gear, to determine if they meet the stuff they say they do (many don't). Typically I can get access if it is for fact checking, not re-publication. Fair enough. I started this thread because I needed some hints re. where to look. Thanks to those who supplied ISO and DIN numbers. As an American, I'm more fluent in ASTM, ASME, and SAE.

As a DIY, it can really seem like defense of an old boys club. DIYs are tempted into doing possibly substandard work by lock of access.

No easy solution.

 

[ean_p]

I seem to remember that either Romania or Bulgaria used to publish all EU accepted standards as a matter of course for public use.....though I've just had a quick look and can't find any free to public copies....... maybe needs a bit of deeper digging!
I have a copy from 2000 if its of any use though at that time had no DC component I think......

 

[thinwater]

Circling back to the first post, it seems there is no color code standard equivalent to ABYC for branch circuits.

Note that ABYC is voluntary. Old boats don't follow it and there is no legal requirement to follow it. And I can tell you that many don't.

This line of inquire started because I was getting questions about color codes on stuff bought on Amazon and from European sources. The US and ISO colors are different. In fact, the only thing all countries seem to agree on is green for protective ground. Everything else varies.

 

[HughClayton]

As Wonkywinch has said the IET have recently published a guide "Electrical Safety for Small Craft" and there is also the British Marine (the industry trade body in the UK) Code of Practice for Electrical and Electronic Installations (for vessels <24 metre LOA) both of which essentially say that OEM supplied equipment can use whatever cable colours are described in the OEM manual and that DC power circuits should use red and black and AC power circuits should use the same as used for onshore LV AC circuits (brown/blue/yellow-green etc)

 

[thinwater]

As Wonkywinch has said the IET have recently published a guide "Electrical Safety for Small Craft" and there is also the British Marine (the industry trade body in the UK) Code of Practice for Electrical and Electronic Installations (for vessels <24 metre LOA) both of which essentially say that OEM supplied equipment can use whatever cable colours are described in the OEM manual and that DC power circuits should use red and black and AC power circuits should use the same as used for onshore LV AC circuits (brown/blue/yellow-green etc)

Please post. That is in conflict with ISO and IEC. Red and black is a USA automotive-only thing. And outboards, in general.

 

[wonkywinch]

Please post. That is in conflict with ISO and IEC. Red and black is a USA automotive-only thing. And outboards, in general.

Not sure I agree with that, red & black is seen almost universally in very low voltage (eg 5-24v DC) wiring, hifi, amateur radio, battery chargers, LED supplies etc I've ever opened the lid on.

 

[alan_d]

Slight thread drift

In the UK or EU are the published legislation copyrighted and is hansard copyrighted if so who holds the copyright

UK Legislation is available at Legislation.gov.uk and is covered by Open Government Licence v3.0.