Is it time to swing your compass?

William_H

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The variation of magnetic poles has always been changing. As Nigel says the paper charts give variation at time of priinting and expected change per year. apprently this rate of change has suddenly changed. Not a thing I am greatly concerned about. Around 3 degrees west here and if I go inland 3-00 miles it gets to zero variation. but a greater problem for those in high latitudes. ol'will
 

AntarcticPilot

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Keep calm. There are TWO magnetic poles, and the one that matters for deviation is not moving much! The North Geomagnetic Pole (the pole of the average dipole magnetic field for the technically minded) is in Baffin Island and has moved very little over the years - 1.5° of latitude in 30 years.

The North Magnetic Pole (where the dip of the magnetic field is vertical) is the one that has shot off towards Siberia. But that is only of interest to people sailing in the Arctic Ocean, which few if any of us have boats capable of doing.

See Geomagnetic pole - Wikipedia and North magnetic pole - Wikipedia
 

justanothersailboat

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Thanks Antarcticpilot, that is somehow simpler than I ever heard that explained before. And now I can see more clearly how variation and "the pole" can change at different rates. I'm ashamed I'd stepped in here to say something facetious before I saw that... Thank you.

Certainly in the Southern and Eastern UK variation is very little at the moment and ought to be for some time, while some parts of the world even I would need to pay close attention to it. I love this
https://www.ncei.noaa.gov/sites/g/files/anmtlf171/files/inline-images/D.jpg
and would rather like a poster of it on my saloon bulkhead... but it feels unjustifiably showy until I have at least crossed the plus or minus ten lines (don't hold your breath).
 

Sandro

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Thank you Antarticpilot, I can see very clearly what the North Magnetic Pole is and figure the field lines all around the earth, the "central" ones entering at right angles the earth surface through the N Magnetic pole and exiting it through the S Magnetic pole, not coincident with the geographic poles and not necessarily antipodal.
But it is not clear to me why the Geomagnetic Poles do not coincide with the Magnetic ones. Is it because, for definition, they must be antipodal? Perhaps I do not understand completely what the Geomagnetic Poles are.

Is the horizontal component of the direction of a free magnet (a compass) pointing to the Magnetic Pole?
 

NormanS

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Keep calm. There are TWO magnetic poles, and the one that matters for deviation is not moving much! The North Geomagnetic Pole (the pole of the average dipole magnetic field for the technically minded) is in Baffin Island and has moved very little over the years - 1.5° of latitude in 30 years.

The North Magnetic Pole (where the dip of the magnetic field is vertical) is the one that has shot off towards Siberia. But that is only of interest to people sailing in the Arctic Ocean, which few if any of us have boats capable of doing.

See Geomagnetic pole - Wikipedia and North magnetic pole - Wikipedia
I hesitate to question you, but on my boat "deviation" is the effect on the compass caused by items aboard my boat, and which I can do something about to reduce. "Variation" is dependent on the difference between True North, and Magnetic North, which I just have to accept and apply.
 

AntarcticPilot

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I hesitate to question you, but on my boat "deviation" is the effect on the compass caused by items aboard my boat, and which I can do something about to reduce. "Variation" is dependent on the difference between True North, and Magnetic North, which I just have to accept and apply.
You're probably right - I never worry about the terminology in this area as long as I know the effects! If I were writing a thesis or paper, I'd take care to get it right.
 
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NormanS

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You're probably right - I never worry about the terminology in this area as long as I know the effects! If I were writing a thesis or paper, I'd take care to get it right.
A very grudging response from you. I would have thought that the difference between Variation and Deviation was absolutely vital in precise navigation.
Do you "worry about the terminology" when differentiating between longitude and latitude?
 

AntarcticPilot

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A very grudging response from you. I would have thought that the difference between Variation and Deviation was absolutely vital in precise navigation.
Do you "worry about the terminology" when differentiating between longitude and latitude
It's because I have rarely had to use them professionally, so I have to think which is which. I'm the same about left and right - they aren't automatic for me. Magnetic compasses have never been of much professional significance to me; working near the pole they aren't very useful (variation tends to be very large and the restoring force on the needle small, so they are slow to settle and not very accurate, especially if there is a lot of ionospheric activity as there often is in the polar regions). And it happens that my boat's system automatically applies both deviation and variation to the fluxgate compass, so I get true bearings from it. Also, I'm in a location where variation is close to 0; certainly far less than errors in reading a compass. Of course, I can apply them correctly if I need to, but that happens less than once a year; I'm mostly in pilotage waters so I rarely steer a compass course.

In fact, the only time I can remember having to think about magnetic bearings in a professional role was when analyzing the record of Nordenskjold's expedition to Snow Hill Island - and that was mainly to check whether the massive error in his bearings could be accounted for by variation (it couldn't; he must have stored the corned beef tins next to the compass as his bearings are all off by about 45°!)
 

Refueler

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I hope he wasn't flying across Antarctica - the ONC and JNC charts of Antarctica are up there with chocolate teapots!

He had to go on the Trans Polar Arctic flights with BOAC ... for certification .....

I may be wrong - but I think it was done with Brittania's ... my head keeps throwing in CL44 ... but I don't think it was ...
 
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