Is it possible to Marinise a desk top PC?

[dralex]

I have been given an old desktop and wonder if I could set it up as a behind the scenes PC on the boat. How easy do people reckon it would be to do. The nice thing is that it is totally disposable and so I can afford to mess around. The first step would be power supply. What sort of requirements would this need, given that it is not mobile technology. It's got a 450MHz preocessor and is running Windows 98.

 

[Mirelle]

I don't know the answer, but can get it when a friend returns from holiday.

He (ex Thames barge skipper, turned charting software programmer) has always said that the "marine PC market" has been dominated by firms flogging very old type kit, and that there is no magic to it.

 

[roger]

Do you need internet?

I had to ugrade to windows 98 when I could no longer get Norton security upgrades for wndows 95. I expect W98 will go the same way.
If you are not going near the net then you have a much simpler set of problems. I ave wifi ad Norton is constatly telling me about attacks of one sort or another. Of course this may be hype to frighten me; I dont know.
Yes I have caught a virus from an E-mail with no attachment.

 

[Trevethan]

Desktops will usually draw up to about 450 watts so you need a suitable invertor arrangement. Thats the max current and will usually run at much lower power drain.

Personally I'd be tempted to buy a cheap SFF machine with an external transformer that can be adpated to run straight off 12 volt.

However as part the marinisaion kit -- suggest you get a flat panel monitor and wireless keyboard and mouse.

Really depends what you want to do -- I'd be tempted to get a beefier machine taht will play DVS, that can store lots of music and will do TV (ideally freeview)

A complete kits should cost more than £500.

On top of that add charting software -- that'ss what costs

 

[dralex]

I have a decent laptop, but this PC is free. I don't need it for navigation at present as I have a plotter. I suspect it's not worth upgrading any bits. I suppose in the end, it's not going to be worth the hassle.

 

[Lakesailor]

A big plastic bag would be a start.
Now, do you want freshwater cooling or seawater?

 

[dralex]

I think fresh would be better.

 

[TrueBlue]

Given that the machine is totally disposable, all you need is a moderately cheap inverter (the cheapest ones are said to be piles-of-poo), say 300 watts. IME the semi squarewave output does not faze PCs

That will get you started and you can have a play.

Having got that far, then you can consider all the fancy bits to do the job "properly".

Total cost, say, £35... http://sterling-power.com have units from £30 quid upwards.

You can always run mains equipment - TVs etc from the inverter when the PC projects ceases to amuse....

 

[Lakesailor]

I just had the mains PSU changed for a quieter one (fan, that is) and it was pretty cheap.
Can't you get 12v dc PSUs ?

 

[davidpbo]

I have tried using cheap inverters to run my laptop but the boat battery has to be in tip top condition and charged otherwise it liable to cut out. Also cable run to batterey needs to be short and substantial. An inverter delivering 150W is going to draw something of the order 13 amps at full power from a 12 volt supply. 450 watts is going to pull nearly 40 Amps isn't it?

I am not aware of any low voltage power supplies for desktops.

CPC do a 12 volt power supply for laptops
www.cpc.co.uk Part No CS1159411

but that has not worked properly from my cigarette lighter socket on the boat. I have yet to try it direct to battery or in the car.

I think given the falling cost of laptops they are a better option as they also have a built in battery (usually)

David E.

 

[Oldhand]

The answer is yes, it is possible. As others have stated you will need an inverter to provide power when not on shore power and much battery capacity to run the PC for any lenght of time. When considering where to put the beast, providing sufficent ventilation will be crucial so you can't just tuck it away behind something, both the PC and inverter will create a lot of heat. You will then need to add a LCD monitor and iR or radio keyboard and mouse. Even a modest small format PC with this sort of configuration will draw at least 7.5A from your boat's 12v supply when the screen is active. More powerfull PC's will draw more current as a rule and more complex operating systems devour more processor effort thus more current too. Thus your slow machine with Win 98 is a better bet.

 

[webcraft]

Unless you have hundreds of amp-hours available don't bother - it will be a huge drain on the boat's batteries however you run it.

Why do you think people give these things away anyway??

Much better IMHO getting a cheap laptop and making a nice cosy shockproof nest for it. You can get a 12v power supply for it, or a spare battery or a big dedicated external battery. I would recommend sopme kind of IBM Thinkpad off Ebay - the TP always comes tops in laptop reliability surveys.

- Nick

 

[mtettmar]

Agree with webcraft re using a laptop. Most can be powered direct from the 12v battery. They will run fine like this but just will not charge the internal battery. However this does not prevent against surges or power loss. Get a 12v cigarette lighter supply from Maplin or Any Batteries - http://any-batteries.co.uk/

My laptop is mounted safe and securly inside the chart table. A bios setting ensures it stays powered on with the lid closed. I have a flat screen 15inch TFT display mounted on an arm which allows it to be viewed at the chart table or from across the saloon. A cheap wireless mouse and keyboard finish off the setup. The laptop is also wired to the stereo. No wires can be seen and the laptop is protected from getting wet. Worst case the monitor or mouse needs replacing and these are relatively cheap. Most TFT flatscreen monitors are 12v - come with a 240v AC-12v DC external supply. So when looking around just ask to see the power supply to check. Mine was less than 200 quid from Dabs. Again, will work direct from 12v battery supply but for extra surge protection use a 12v-12v power supply. I got mine from Any Batteries. The bulkhead mounted bracket is from Vogl and has a small footprint and doesn't look ungainly:
http://www.chaseavdirect.co.uk/acatalog/Vogels-LCD-Mount-EFW-1001.html

If unsure just use a cheap/old laptop for a while. All the software is backed up so worst case you just need to replace the laptop if it really does get a dunking and you can get laptops pretty much anywhere. Swagman, who posts here, spilt a can of wife beater on his laptop, cleaned it out with fresh water, left it to dry for a day or two and after that it worked fine. A quality laptop should withstand small amounts of water. I believe a lot of this stuff about marinised equipment is industry spin to make you spend more ....

 

[meekumslr]

Hi,
In a couple of months, myself, cousin (computer specialist) and his colleague will be designing, constructing and marketing an affordable 12 volt PC using nano technology (minature motherboards/processors etc).
The reasons for the design and build stem from the fact that currently available marine PC's are too costly and don't justify that cost.
I plan to run Seapro 2000 on the first unit and when tried and tested, I hope to produce leaflets for the London Boatshow at Docklands (Excel) in Jan 2006.
Its about time we had 21st century technology on the water too.
Neil.

 

[fireball]

Laptops on 12v

The majority of newer laptops run on 19v (includes charging the battery) and will NOT run directly off 12v.
The older laptops that had a 15v supply may well run off the ships battery - the Toshiba one we've got certainly does.
It is possible to get DC-DC converters and a lot of ppl consider these to be more efficient than the 240v inverters ... so it may be possible to re-create the required Motherboard and HD voltages with DC to DC converters, it just depends how much you want to spend and what your going to use the PC for....
If it is just the odd occaisional use within harbour then its probably easier to just use an inverter, but I would've thought a PC was a little bulky to stow and quite susseptible to vibration damage.

 

[Ships_Cat]

We have used a standard desk top on board (40 foot yacht) and had no problems at all without taking any special precautions whatsoever apart from tying it down so's it didn't fly across the cabin in rough weather (our boat is not leaky or wet though).

The accelerations on a yacht are also much less than most desktops experience in an office (compare with day to day jarring of the top of a desk, falling over if standing on the floor, being carried around or transported - all things they survive ok in land life). Yachts give a soft ride in comparison and you will find that the PC would survive ok just as it is.

As others have said they are more power hungry than a notebook, especially the monitor if not LCD, but that is a relative thing - just depends how much power one has to spare - the comments of the power deprived are not relevant to those who live a less spartan lifestyle on board. They are, however, much, much more convenient to use than a notebook if installed and if I was going away cruising for a long period I would probably refit one instead of using a laptop as I now do.

John

 

[davidpbo]

As a footnote to my previous posting in this thread I did try the 12 volt laptop PSU from the car lighter socket and on a battery in the garage and it ran the laptop fine drawing between 3.5 and 6 amps at 12V playing DVD. Hope this info may be of use to someone.

I shall check my boat battery and maybe replace the wiring to my switch panel with thicker cable although what is used is able to handle my boat's minimal current requirements the voltage drop is maybe too much for more sensitive equipment.

David E.

 

[hylass]

Another interesting discussion on the same topic:

http://www.cruisersforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1390&perpage=15&pagenumber=2

 

[dralex]

Thanks for all the interesting replies.

 

[2Tizwoz]

www.itx-warehouse.co.uk

The above company sell VIA (a computer motherboard manufacturer) products. There is a trend for 'silent computing' which does also drive the need for low power as people try to eliminate fans. Offices need to be airconditioned to get rid of computer heat.

Most computers are power hungry and produce a lot of heat. Power supplies for the fast machines needed for the games market are commonly up to 500watts - which would draw 40amps on 12volts. VIA have produced CPUs which need no fan and the computer will run from a 60watt supply - which would draw 5amps. They are designed for 12volt power supplies to run in cars boats and so on.

These machines don't have the processing power that some machines have but are fine for internet spread sheets and charting.

The power saving LCD screens are now down in price commonly drawing 30watts for a 15" screen - equivalent size to a 17" CRT screen. This set up can run DVDs and provide TV with a suitable card. Seems to me to be the way to go as laptops are expensive when it comes to batteries and spare parts.