Is it just me or are all modern boats completely horrible ?

[Refueler]

Its nice to look at boats many cannot afford.

Chats with likes of Ridas and others I know - they say that's there little money in the 'small' boats today. Cost of production per ft tends to make it hard. Most of us I am sure can remember the days when 26ft was regarded as a good size ... blimey - I remember the first Centaur in Fareham MB&SC many years ago - the guy brought it up to the club pontoon and Club had a party to celebrate... owner inviting people on to look inside ... I still can picture it ... yellow hull ...
My Father was in process of signing build contract for a Golden Hind at the time .. and seriously considered changing for a Centaur.

When I first registered with YBW ... long before the date to the left ... I was here in the first days of ever having YBW forums and went through the various updates ... the loss of all registrations and rebuild ... anyway - the change in boats size and expectations is marked as is in the marina's.
In those early days - PBO RtoR was really Practical Boat Owner with DIY and tips for the smaller boat owner .. times move on and now the days of the 20ftr here ??

 

[anoccasionalyachtsman]

I believe the cost of rectification was one of the factors leading to Westerly going bust in 1980/81.

Maybe ... but when I spoke to the guys - they talked about the cost of developing the Riviera and also the frequent change of owner / management being the final nail.

Blimey - was it that long ago !! Only seems like yesterday I would come out the pub after a pint with the lads ..

The Riviera was late eighties - 'fraid I can't remember what might have been in (expensive) development back then.

 

[eddystone]

If your definition of "modern" is in current production, how about Spirit yachts?
In general the builders seem to produce what the majority of the market want, so perhaps your question should be re-phrased.... "Is it just me or are all modern sailors horrible"

 

[Graham376]

If your definition of "modern" is in current production, how about Spirit yachts?
In general the builders seem to produce what the majority of the market want, so perhaps your question should be re-phrased.... "Is it just me or are all modern sailors horrible"

The market for "affordable" boats is to a very large extent dictated by charter buyers who want to pack in as many as they can and as cheaply as possible.

Last time I changed boats, had the choice of new Bav, Ben, etc. or older second hand, needing updating. All down to personal taste of course but I want a chart table, secure galley area, settee sea berths, twin heads, aft cabin and centre cockpit. Not interested in ultimate performance.

Dislike boats with linear galleys, horseshoe settees, no chart table, no sea berths. Dislike the looks of modern fast, flat bottomed, twin wheel, wedge shape boats. Like the looks and layouts of HR, Malo etc., but don't want teak decks.

The majority of long distance liveaboards tend to have older designs, slower, comfortable ride boats with good accommodation, rather than modern high performance ones, which many new buyers in the market would discount as old, slow and very dated, just as they do with cars.

 

[eddystone]

Well I own a Sadler 32 and also have a bit of time on Contessa 32 and I rather liked the Sunsail 38 /aka Janneau 389 I and SWMBO had for 10 days in December. Having been on boats where the wheel obstructs movement in the cockpit I think twin wheels are brilliant - also better helm position to see tell tales (if the bimini wasn't in the way!) The huge cockpit locker accessible both from the cockpit and the heads is excellent, as was drop down bathing platform (yes I have washed my mouth out) . Experiencing some significant "christmas" winds and seas in Caribbean it felt as safe/seaworthy as my own boat although I acknowledge the slamming is annoying - why do they have such cutaway underwater sections at the bow? Also, generally layup felt solid, including things like locker lids. The thing you would say is that the internal "joinery" is definitely IKEA including plastic tape on the ends which detaches itself . As a coastal/shortish offshore passage boat I would happily own one if I had the money.
This has been debated ad nauseam but the proportion of punters who do long distance trans-oceanic stuff must be a tiny % of the market.

 

[geem]

Well I own a Sadler 32 and also have a bit of time on Contessa 32 and I rather liked the Sunsail 38 /aka Janneau 389 I and SWMBO had for 10 days in December. Having been on boats where the wheel obstructs movement in the cockpit I think twin wheels are brilliant - also better helm position to see tell tales (if the bimini wasn't in the way!) The huge cockpit locker accessible both from the cockpit and the heads is excellent, as was drop down bathing platform (yes I have washed my mouth out) . Experiencing some significant "christmas" winds and seas in Caribbean it felt as safe/seaworthy as my own boat although I acknowledge the slamming is annoying - why do they have such cutaway underwater sections at the bow? Also, generally layup felt solid, including things like locker lids. The thing you would say is that the internal "joinery" is definitely IKEA including plastic tape on the ends which detaches itself . As a coastal/shortish offshore passage boat I would happily own one if I had the money.
This has been debated ad nauseam but the proportion of punters who do long distance trans-oceanic stuff must be a tiny % of the market.

I had a wander around English Harbour yesterday and walked past the Sunsail dock. There were three drop down bathing platforms in a heap that has presumably failed somehow. The boats at the dock all had bathing platform fitted so it looks like they had been replaced. Maybe not up to the abuse of charter market?

 

[Laminar Flow]

The benny in the OP looks like a lovely way to spend a pleasant holiday to me.

My wife enjoys coming sailing but is more interested in her kindle and the scenery than tweaking the sails. Having the control lines led back to me at the helm sounds great, I can tweak to my hearts content. The boat sails at 7kts in 6kts of wind = more sailing / less motoring = less likelihood of seasick wife = happier cruise. The galley looks nice and secure in a seaway whilst still having ample space to make a nice meal - who wants to be fed tinned junk food / fray bentos when out sailing these days? The forecabin has good sized double bed and can enjoy the scenery with coffee in bed in the morning.

What's not to like? Other than having to multiply the new boat fund by a factor of 10...

What's not to like? Not a lot to be sure, but to be fair, the thing is 53 feet long with a couple of acres of teak deck to maintain and that does not leave a lot of time for cruising; been there done that. I (and especially my wife) agree that being able to sail in light winds is more enjoyable, it is however not an exclusive to boats with a DWL over 50'; true, the 7kts is, its that relative speed thing. I am not aware of any particular menu restrictions on smaller/older style boats. It is correct that on older British boats the galleys were pathetic; a cultural issue, I suspect - how much facility do you need to heat a can of baked beans ( from "Cruising with my Dad")? The v-berth in our 31.5's forecabin is 7' wide at the head. This is where my wife likes to take her morning tea. Indeed, she has been pestering me to put a couple of portholes in the side so she can look out. The Benny presented does not have a seagoing interior - so, no real cooking at sea. I speak from experience. This boat is meant to be level and preferably tied up by cocktail time and not really one I'd take out for an afternoon spin with just the missus either. Each to their own. A

 

[Daydream believer]

The majority of long distance liveaboards tend to have older designs, slower, comfortable ride boats with good accommodation, rather than modern high performance ones, which many new buyers in the market would discount as old, slow and very dated, just as they do with cars.

Looking on the MyHanse forum a lot of people are buying Hanse yachts & going blue water. I would not call them old school. I am wonder if your view of the modern monied liveaboard is quite right, ie not driven by economics of having to buy old.
I really wonder if boats really have been bought because they are slow. That might just be a side effect they put up with

 

[Daydream believer]

What's not to like? Not a lot to be sure, but to be fair, the thing is 53 feet long with a couple of acres of teak deck to maintain and that does not leave a lot of time for cruising; been there done that. I

Are you really sure that people with money to buy brand new boats of that type really worry about cleaning teak decks. I have seen owners of much smaller boats simply employing others to do the job. Owners of those boats have far better things to fill their lives. probably do not have that much time to sail the boat anyway. So they probably would never ponce about scrubbing decks. I am darned sure that i would not be underneath doing the antifoul each year. That's for sure.
How long do they keep them? Love em & leave em I expect. Then court another

 

[LONG_KEELER]

The beautiful truth in the age we happen to live in , there is a boat out there to suit everyone's needs and budget without having to make too many compromises .

Lots of us are having fun and adventures or simply escaping and being on our boats going nowhere.

Live a boards are I think a bit different as 24/7 living requires a bit more room and comfort but again, you make your own rules as you go.

 

[Old Harry]

What has that got to do with a discussion on the design of modern boats? Beneteau has built a successful business through research and innovation. They now employ 8200 people in France, US, Poland, Italy and China.

Ably assisted by the French Government at a time when our mob applied 25% VAT to boats

 

[pvb]

Ably assisted by the French Government at a time when our mob applied 25% VAT to boats

That was a very long time ago; Beneteau is succeeding largely because they're doing things right.

 

[Old Harry]

That was a very long time ago; Beneteau is succeeding largely because they're doing things right.

BUT without that assistance they might have ended up like Bavaria

 

[Refueler]

Are you really sure that people with money to buy brand new boats of that type really worry about cleaning teak decks. I have seen owners of much smaller boats simply employing others to do the job. Owners of those boats have far better things to fill their lives. probably do not have that much time to sail the boat anyway. So they probably would never ponce about scrubbing decks. I am darned sure that i would not be underneath doing the antifoul each year. That's for sure.
How long do they keep them? Love em & leave em I expect. Then court another

Maybe its a bit before your time here .... but some years ago - there was an article in the magazine ... remember the paper one !! ... that was titled : Small boats go further (or something similar).

Basically author had visited large and small marinas asking owners about their use of their boats ... he found a large %age of bigger boats hardly moved .... excuses such as 'by time all organised ...' .... 'travel down to marina ....' etc. But the small boat owners were out each opportunity they could get.

It led to quite a long running discussion ...

There must still be companys around that provide 'skirts' round boats to help prevent scum / fouling ? I can remember adverts for this for boats that didn't move often ...

Just saying.

 

[Daydream believer]

Maybe its a bit before your time here .... but some years ago - there was an article in the magazine ... remember the paper one !! ... that was titled : Small boats go further (or something similar).

Basically author had visited large and small marinas asking owners about their use of their boats ... he found a large %age of bigger boats hardly moved .... excuses such as 'by time all organised ...' .... 'travel down to marina ....' etc. But the small boat owners were out each opportunity they could get.

It led to quite a long running discussion ...

There must still be companys around that provide 'skirts' round boats to help prevent scum / fouling ? I can remember adverts for this for boats that didn't move often ...

Just saying.

Supports my comments then !!!& yes I still have one particular copy of the "paper one".
I spoke to one owner who had just bought a large MOBO. His accountant had said to him. "Yes all very nice, but now you are so much wealthier, I doubt that you will have the time to use it" The chap commented that he was beginning to think that his accountant might be right.

 

[Laminar Flow]

Ably assisted by the French Government at a time when our mob applied 25% VAT to boats

What the French actually did, was set up a tax scheme where you bought a boat and leased it out to a charter company. The cost of the boat was hence tax deductible. The plan was, that after ten years the boat was fully amortized and the purchaser ended up with a "free" boat. Of course there was no Vat to pay as the boat was bought for business purposes. What a boat looked like after 10 hard years in the charter trade is another story. A friend of mine did several transatlantic deliveries to Martinique. A

 

[Laminar Flow]

Are you really sure that people with money to buy brand new boats of that type really worry about cleaning teak decks. I have seen owners of much smaller boats simply employing others to do the job. Owners of those boats have far better things to fill their lives. probably do not have that much time to sail the boat anyway. So they probably would never ponce about scrubbing decks. I am darned sure that i would not be underneath doing the antifoul each year. That's for sure.
How long do they keep them? Love em & leave em I expect. Then court another

I'm afraid I'm a bit too hands-on for that and I have always wondered about the appeal of having a boat larger than I could handle on my own and that would require a crew. I quite happy to leave the "daydreaming" to others and have a "real" experience within my much more modest means. A.

 

[Bajansailor]

Maybe its a bit before your time here .... but some years ago - there was an article in the magazine ... remember the paper one !! ... that was titled : Small boats go further (or something similar).

Basically author had visited large and small marinas asking owners about their use of their boats ... he found a large %age of bigger boats hardly moved .... excuses such as 'by time all organised ...' .... 'travel down to marina ....' etc. But the small boat owners were out each opportunity they could get.

It led to quite a long running discussion ...

There must still be companys around that provide 'skirts' round boats to help prevent scum / fouling ? I can remember adverts for this for boats that didn't move often ...

Just saying.

There is a lot of truth in this - some sailing pals of mine started off with a Kingfisher 20 which cost them GBP 2,000 about 35 years ago. They were out on her every weekend, and they had a 2 week summer cruise each year.
They kept her for about 7 or 8 years, and then sold her for GBP 2,000 and bought a Colvic 26 which seemed enormous in comparison. Yet usage decreased, and the cost per weekend of sailing went up enormously. They owned her for another 7 or 8 years and then acquired a Vancouver 32 which was sailed to the Med, and which now due to family circumstances does not see them very often.

Nowadays you don't see too many 22' cruising yachts setting off across the Atlantic (I am not including the Mini-Transat boats as they are all basically racing machines). Never mind all the equipment and electronics available nowadays that should make such a trip much 'safer'.
This intrepid little Westerly 22 sailed to the Caribbean in 1966 - and after she was found languishing in a field outside Baltimore a few years ago is hopefully sailing again (or will be soon) .
And Westerly 22's seem to be a bit like Marmite re people either love them or not. Rather like this thread re 'modern' boats.

'A friend in a field'

 

[Laminar Flow]

Looking on the MyHanse forum a lot of people are buying Hanse yachts & going blue water. I would not call them old school. I am wonder if your view of the modern monied liveaboard is quite right, ie not driven by economics of having to buy old.
I really wonder if boats really have been bought because they are slow. That might just be a side effect they put up with

I seriously doubt people buy boats because they are slow. A blue water yacht has to be able to carry all the supplies needed for passage. Older, heavier shapes are better load carriers than the lighter newer models, but as the average yacht is getting larger these days that deficit is somewhat ameliorated. A bigger boat, of course, is also faster. There is obviously a lot more disposable income around these days, but newer definitely does not always mean better. A

 

[Laminar Flow]

There is a lot of truth in this - some sailing pals of mine started off with a Kingfisher 20 which cost them GBP 2,000 about 35 years ago. They were out on her every weekend, and they had a 2 week summer cruise each year.
They kept her for about 7 or 8 years, and then sold her for GBP 2,000 and bought a Colvic 26 which seemed enormous in comparison. Yet usage decreased, and the cost per weekend of sailing went up enormously. They owned her for another 7 or 8 years and then acquired a Vancouver 32 which was sailed to the Med, and which now due to family circumstances does not see them very often.

Nowadays you don't see too many 22' cruising yachts setting off across the Atlantic (I am not including the Mini-Transat boats as they are all basically racing machines). Never mind all the equipment and electronics available nowadays that should make such a trip much 'safer'.
This intrepid little Westerly 22 sailed to the Caribbean in 1966 - and after she was found languishing in a field outside Baltimore a few years ago is hopefully sailing again (or will be soon) .
And Westerly 22's seem to be a bit like Marmite re people either love them or not. Rather like this thread re 'modern' boats.

'A friend in a field'

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The best boat is the one you currently own. A