Is it just me or are all modern boats completely horrible ?
- Thread starter Boo2
- Start date
Graham376
Well-Known Member
Join the club, it's out of my budget as well but would prefer an Amel if I won the lottery. There's a hell of a difference between boats people dream about but only a minority can afford and ones those retiring to head off can afford. Hence the number of older designs with sensible accommodation still being popular.
Tradewinds
Well-Known Member
I have to say that having looked at the boat on the HR website I rather like it. and, as you say, it's pretty impressive.
But, it's going to be about 1/2 a mil by the time the extras are added. IMO that's a lot of money for a 40ft boat no matter how well designed and put together it is.
BTW I don't know why Magnus Rassy looked so smug about his pop-up washboards - I had that feature on my 1970's Seadog - so hardly a new idea!
But, it's going to be about 1/2 a mil by the time the extras are added. IMO that's a lot of money for a 40ft boat no matter how well designed and put together it is.
BTW I don't know why Magnus Rassy looked so smug about his pop-up washboards - I had that feature on my 1970's Seadog - so hardly a new idea!
pvb
Well-Known Member
Yes, £500K is about the going rate for highly-specced "quality" boats of that size. It is quite a lot of money, but what else are people going to spend it on?
I thought the wooden pop-up washboard was lovely. Quite a few boats are fitting pop-up washboards now, but they're often plastic. Did your Seadog have a gas spring on the washboard though?
Daydream believer
Well-Known Member
Last year i met a HR owner who had just purchased his second brand new HR. A 40 ft one. He was really critical of it. He complained about all sorts of things including " Fancy carpets that got wet when he went below" I do not know if they were standard or something his wife had added but he complained that quality had gone down in recent years & in an attempt to keep up with modern trends of new owners the boat had been "flashed up". Bits seemed "Cheap". Something he hated. He said that he really regretted selling his old one.
Old Harry
Well-Known Member
Bill Church did the Jester in his, all on his tod too
pvb
Well-Known Member
The carpets are able to be removed if a lot of water is expected! I'm not convinced that Hallberg-Rassy quality was ever that high, although the boats were undeniably attractive, with great woodwork and upholstery, plus a timeless elegance. I had a Hallberg-Rassy 352 for around 19 years, and it was a lovely boat but the gelcoat quality wasn't great, and there were a lot of rough edges once you started looking inside lockers, etc.
Tradewinds
Well-Known Member
Nah - elastic
pvb
Well-Known Member
Probably longer-lasting than a gas strut!
Laminar Flow
Well-Known Member
That's a sin and you know it. A
Laminar Flow
Well-Known Member
Friends of mine sailed a HC 38 (sloop) across the Atlantic in 17 days; that's an average speed of 6.47kts or a 155 miles a day. So much for the myth that traditional styled boats of a generous displacement can't get out of their own way. A
Laminar Flow
Well-Known Member
I saw the review of the HR40. on Youtube. Nice boat said:
johnalison
Well-Known Member
HRs have had carpets for a good while now. We have learned to appreciate ours. It certainly makes living inside more comfortable and we have not had problems with salt, although we must have brought some in at times.
HR was never a hand-built yacht, and so shouldn't be compared with the products of small yards, but it was the result of a clever mass-production system, but one that veered towards quality components. After sailing with us, a friend bought a Bav 34 a year or two later and there was no comparison between the two. The Bav was perfectly satisfactory, but awkwardly designed in places, far less comfortable, rough in places and with less robust or lower quality fittings. This was nearly twenty years ago, so the comments may not still apply. Another friend bought an HR six years after us and there were many signs that economies were being made, especially in the interior. The famous louvred lockers had gone and the soft furnishings were only kept in place by Velcro. It is still a decent boat in many ways and there are one or two design improvements. The latest HRs seem to have continued the process, but they are still a cut above the mass builders for those who are looking for their interpretation of the modern cruising yacht.
geem
Well-Known Member
I dont what happened to ballast ratio as an indicator of seaworthiness and comfort. Our 44ft Van de Stadt has 6tonnes of lead keel and a design weight of 14.5t. 41% ballast ratio. You never see that in a new hull. She is reasonably fast, close winded and comfy. She has a lovely slow roll motion. Even over pressed she behaves superbly. We just sail flatter when reefed. Interestedly she sails closer to wind when powered up and heeling some. She never rounds up and we rarely steer. The autopilot can handle her in all conditions. Rough weather is not a problem.
Daydream believer
Well-Known Member
There were a couple of HR 35's (not particularly old) in our area a few years ago & I sailed straight past both of them them in my 31 ft hanse on different angles of sailing a each couple of times . I could not help feeling how slow they were. However. one day i was alongside one in the Wallet on a dead run . I had main only. Th HR 35 had full sail & genoa. A really strong gust hit us & my bow started to dig into the back of a wave which gave me a bit of a jump as if I had tripped on the bow & turned the wrong way I could have gybed badly. In the end I rounded up very quickly & reefed. I noticed that the HR was still sailing as if nothing had happened. I soon caught it up again though.
A highly experienced friend of mine was caught in a hurricane for some days somewhere in the Bahamas (I think) in an HR 39. He said that on the top of the swell he could hardly stand & on the bottom there was relatively nothing. 5 boats had left the same port at the same time, heading in roughly the same direction. 2 boats were lost at sea & never heard of again. He says that whilst things were violent, they never felt that the HR was not going to make it. He said that if ever he had to go to sea in such weather again, his first choice would be an HR. He has quite a few Atlantic crossings under his belt as well.
A highly experienced friend of mine was caught in a hurricane for some days somewhere in the Bahamas (I think) in an HR 39. He said that on the top of the swell he could hardly stand & on the bottom there was relatively nothing. 5 boats had left the same port at the same time, heading in roughly the same direction. 2 boats were lost at sea & never heard of again. He says that whilst things were violent, they never felt that the HR was not going to make it. He said that if ever he had to go to sea in such weather again, his first choice would be an HR. He has quite a few Atlantic crossings under his belt as well.
PabloPicasso
Well-Known Member
True, the Seawolf 26 was the best boat ever to sail, it's been downhill since then...
coopec
N/A
Well I am not convinced the ballast ratio is much of a guide.
In a traditional long keelyacht you can get all the ballast down very low to give maximum righting moment. But with the modern fin keel a lot of the ballast may spill into the bilges where it is not effective.
A lot of yachts with their spade/balanced rudders and fin keels are coastal cruisers rather than blue water yachts
Laminar Flow
Well-Known Member
Well, the traditional, longkeel type also has a lot of capsizing displacement under water. Boats with less deadrise than the slack-bilge traditional hull, are stiffer and can have a greater range of stability as well. The reason for ballast torpedoes is that it allows for more effective low-down weight and therefor less of it. The trend to ever lighter is also the main reason for the continuing trend for wider boats - you have to get the stability somewhere. Where traditional types excel is load carrying ability and here it does keep the weight of tanks, and gear low. What is rarely understood though, are the roll and capsize dampening qualities of a long or medium long keel. (Marchaj, Seaworthiness, the Forgotten Factor, offers som fine reading on that) To be clear, many long keel and traditionally constructed boats have ballast ratios of only 25% (or less). The advent of higher ballast ratios came about with the introduction of modern materials when traditional designs made up for the lack of structural weight with, well, ballast. A.
geem
Well-Known Member
The problem with a long keel boat is you can have lots of ballast but due to the relatively shallow draft the ballast is not low down so ballast ratio has less effect than a deep keel boat using a lead keel. A dont know of any modern fin keel boat that has internal ballast. The ballast is all in the cast iron keel and not much of it. The shallow bilges of most flat bottomed modern designs dont lend themselves to locating ballast
pvb
Well-Known Member
I can't think of many modern fin keelers which have ballast in the bilges.