Is Ellen cheating

[jimi]

Down ra pub this evening, the company came to the conclusion than Ellen was but a brave and robust autopilot doing what she was told by her onshore team. They rapidly came to the conclusion that the way to do it properly was to lock down ALL communication equipment (transmit or receive) in the same way the engine is sealed off in the Vendee. What do you think?

 

[Skents]

An autopilot can't feel pain, fear, stress at the prospect of failure....human emotion. Maybe a machine could do it better but could your mates down the pub do better.....even with weather routing & technical advice?

 

[Colin_S]

You gonna tell her she's disqualified when she gets back? /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[starboard]

I must admit when you look at all the aids at her disposal it makes the feats and endurance of Knox Johnson etc all the more amazing.

Paul.

 

[jimi]

Yeah but Francis Chichester et al had no one to talk to for months, had no weather routeing .. they were on their own!

 

[starboard]

Yea Jimi that's just my point....it was amazing, as you say she seems just to be a human auto pilot guided by her crew of 12 ashore!!

 

[AlexL]

Nah, shes still taking on the elements, climbing the mast, dealing with the hour to hour tactics etc.
You'll be amazed how many people think the same about flying a plane these days, or sailing a boat, or (insert any persuit here).
She still gets my vote!

 

[BrendanS]

It would be a far purer sport if the outside assistance was dropped. Keep the communications though. Fascinating to see and hear what they are up to everyday.

 

[jimi]

So You mean you can be a voyeur? IMHO part of the challenge of a SOLO around the world race is that is should be solo. There's no doubt the constant contact with the team is a major benefit and that it would be extremely unlikely that a true solo RTW would be as fast as an aided RTW. I'm not doing Ellen down cos I think she's brill but think the real challenge is an unaided RTW.

 

[Parsonsheath]

I agree with your comment.

I think there should be categories recognising the fantastic, but different achievements of those who are team drivers, and solo drivers.

Looked at my old video of the Hiscock's leaving the UK in the 50's , what equipment did they have in comparison to today? No, I don't want to turn the clock back, but you do have to admire them, and yes, I am sure that given the choice they would have carried all the kit Ellen has

 

[ianwright]

No, clearly she is not cheating but it doesnt sound like much fun either.
Leaving the Pro racers aside, I'm sure that cruising is much more satisfying without shore contact. Once out of mobile phone and VHF range you can settle down to real sailing , and I don't much care for epirbs either.

IanW

 

[BrendanS]

You can keep the voyeur bit, without providing assistance or two way contact.

 

[webcraft]

Crowhurst cheated . . .

Can't you tell the difference?

- Nick

 

[PeterStone]

I've got that video and charming it is too. However, I'm not so sure Hiscock would have embraced all the latest wizardry - he didn't even carry a VHF.

This is an extract from his book 'Voyaging under sail'

'Each year more and more yachts are fitted with radio telephones, and although such equipment might be the means of saving life, it should not be allowed to take the place of constant vigilance and good seamanship. In many instances if the money spent on buying and installing the set, and the time taken learning to use it, had been devoted instead to the careful preparation of the yacht and her gear, the need to radio for help would never have arisen.'

 

[ChrisE]

Nutz

Good headline jimi, but be careful with the c word.

To cheat there have to be rules to break. There none about onshore contact hence no cheat. What she is doing is akin to Michael Schu & co. The drivers wouldn't acheive the speeds they do without the huge army of technicians in the pits the same is true of Ellen. What she and her team are doing is pushing out the boundaries of how you attempt a RTW race and that, in the long run will benefits all of us from the goodies they invent to get round that tiny bit quicker/safer. According to a YW editorial, autopilot technology has come on in leaps and bounds because of RTW needs as did windvane steering 40 or 50 years ago.

Now if you want to propose a non-communicating RTW race then that's up to you and I'll be pleased to wave you off. In fact, I probably have the charts somewhere.......

 

[Becky]

Re: Nutz

Excellently put. I was just about to say much the same thing. It is only by pushing the limits further and further that the rest of us can sail in stronger safer boats. And just consider that all those pioneers were not tearing along at 20-40 knots with all the potential risks to life and limb that entails. Who would dare go so fast without all the available safety equipment?

 

[starboard]

Re: Nutz

Some how don't think the technology used and developed in producing these racing beasts will be used in the average run of the mill French or Bavarian tupperware...unless of course you want to pay for it. Looking at some recent examples they have turned out they have struggled to use a gel coat you can see!!!!

Paul.

 

[Chris_Robb]

I don't thnk that Knox-Johnston et al were any more adventurous - they could never have experianced the continous pounding that Ellen has taken - hers is a feat of such incredible endurance - going on and on and on and on........

 

[starboard]

Dont know how you can say that. Knox Johnson etc were heading into the unknown with a vessel thats performance unknown made from old fashion materials. No contact with anyone for months on end and only navigating with a sextant. If thats not adventerous I cant think what is. As for Ellen she has the most upto date materials used in the construction of here vessel and every aid man made to assist. as to the battering she is taking yes I agree but in no way any more than the suffering KJ and others went through. It is a testiment to modern materials however that here Tri is still in one piece.

 

[philmarks]

One answer might be to have a "Corinthian" RTW record - no outside assistance. This of course means no "interactive" weather forecasts (ie exclude Gribs and web downloads) - the skill then is using what is publicly available and individual's forecasting based on skill. OK so we'd have to have VHF, but that's of limited use. So what other "rules" should there be?

I agree with other poster about Schu and technicians. The problem is that we become so dependent on it. Great to have the latest autopilot stuff with rate gyros and the like, but you can't fix one of those as you can a wind vane gear.

I speak as one who doesn't have a wind vane....and likes technology.