Is Croatia worth the agro?

[Two Drifters]

Lots of mixed reports, but the general feeling I am getting is...

- Yep it is beautiful but not worth it for a cruising boat as it costs a bomb and the officials will hound you and fine you wherever and whenever they can!

Is this fair?

 

[RupertW]

Far from it.

We bought a boat in Croatia with the idea of sailing it to Greece the next season but stayed 4 years.
We have enjoyed Greece in the last 2 years but Croatia (so far) beats it hands down for:
- vast number of often beautiful anchorage for which we have never been charged
- cuisine a mixture of Balkan . Turkish and Italian with truffles a real favourite
- attitude - they have been described as yorkshi

 

[silver-fox]

Yes you have to pay for a vignette and a small tourist tax. Once done you are entitled to cruise an incredibly beautiful and varied causing ground. I got fined for not clearing in properly. Cost me £66- hardly draconian and I knew what the rules were but didn't follow them! My own fault entirely.

Well worth a visit and I shall be staying for most of next year.

 

[sailaboutvic]

Believe what you will.
People break the law, then complain about being fined ( silver fox this isn't mean for you )
That's not law problem, it's the people who break it in the first place who are to blame.
We visit Croatia In 2014 and enjoyed it very much, (see link below)
The fact are if you want to use marinas of the Harbour wall, then expect to pay dearly for it, they don't come cheap.
One very big miff is you can't anchor without being charged for anchor, I can assure everyone who reads this that its total rubbish, yes, there are some place where you have to pay, but there hundreds and hundreds you don't,
what you May find is , now and then local will try it on , we found this on three occasions , each time we ask to see official paper and when they couldn't show us any I just refused to pay and they just when away.

This is a very typical example of the half story's told and I hope the Brit who I am talking about is reading this.
After check in at Cavtat we anchored in the middle of the Harbour and while walking ashore we came across a British boat so we stopped to talk to him, as soon as I told him we just check in, his words were (welcome to rip off Croatia) I asked him why and he said he was being charged 45 euro a night, no water no power to be on the harbor wall , well sorry Mr Brit that's your choice , nobody made him moor on the harbor wall , it was costing us nothing to anchor.

Some anchorage now also has mooring buoys which you have to pay for and more are popping up each year, but Usually you can anchor away from the buoys and if not there be an anchorage near by ,
We also found mooring fees for the buoys are not collected till late afternoon so as long as you move off before then you will be fine, but expect to have to pay if your still on then when the guy come around .
Don't compare Croatia with Greece it be a bit like comparing Greece with the Balearic it two very different countries.What we all been getting away with in Greece for years you can't in Croatia, what you will find is Croatia a very clean country the food is very good most people are very help full and Friendly, and once you have checked in your left alone, the cost of living isn't much different then any where else as long as you use the super markets , the street market are very good , take plenty of gas , as it can be a problem to get hold off.
We will most lightly return there this year and if we do, we will update the web site.
There is a very good site that you will find a link on my site to it, which will give you places where mooring buoy are places and anchorage where you have to pay which we found up to date.
If you fancy Croatia then stops reading stuff from people who thinks Greece is the only cruising ground in the Med and go and try it out for yourself.
BUT don't go and break the law of the country , get caught and fine then moan about the country .

 

[RichardS]

We've been in Croatia for 7 years now and I agree with everyone above.

It's true that there are more mooring buoys appearing in some bays and you usually can't anchor amongst the buoys but if you don't want to pay just be friendly and ask the guy how far away you need go to be able to anchor and you might be surprised when he says "100 metres over there".

The places which charge for anchoring are relatively few (and all shown on the official Croatian Government website) but, once again, 100 metres away it's free and often the fee guy doesn't even show up.

In our experience the Croatians are friendly and helpful provided you behave in the same way. There are always odd individuals who might be having a bad day or whatever but we have had more "tricky" encounters with fellow non-Croatian sailors than with Croatians but I'm talking about fingers of one hand numbers over 7 years.

The choice of overnight locations is immense and seems more varied than Greece. Within a few miles you can decide whether to spend the night in a large city, a small town, a large bay with twenty other boats and a choice of restaurants, a small bay with a couple of other boats and one restaurant or a small bay totally on your own and not a human being for miles in any direction.

It is initally more expensive than Greece (vignette and soujourn taxes) but as Vic says, you are getting something extra for your money.

The only other downside is that the bays are much less sandy than Greece and anchoring can be slightly more hit and miss. However, the information in the various guides usually includes a mention if anchoring is tricky and often the sight of a rocky terrain rolling down to the sea gives you a good clue that you might need a few goes before you are bedded down. A good anchor (I won't say more other than you will see hardly any CQRs and a lot of next-gen) and a good length of chain (at least 50m) will make a big difference.

Richard

 

[alexsailor]

There is no more vignette!
But you have to pay sort of "cruising tax" (about 120 for a 43footer for a year; but you can pay for a month etc) and then you have to pay tourist tax (about 200eur for a 43 footer for a year but then again you can pay for a month).

If seeking the "free cruising spirit" like in Greece you will not find it since evertyhing costs.
One night stay in Islans Vis harboru (with electricty and water) 82 eur for a 43 footer.
And so on...
But it is a beautiful cruising ground.

 

[silver-fox]

I thought the correct name for the "sort of annual cruising tax" was vignette? Any way that was what I was referring to in my earlier post

 

[Hardmy]

We spent happy boating seasons in Croatia, but aren't unhappy to having moved on to Greece last year.

The "+"
- there is probably not more choice of islands and secluded anchorages in the whole med
- distances are short
- every little town is pretty and has special atmosphere
- very clear water (is it the lack of sand?)
- broad choice of flights (from CH/CZ/D)


The "-"
- more and more buoys which are placed in the nicest coves
- expensive mooring fees (yes you can spend your whole vacation on the hook, but from time to time we were also happy to visit a place, and always always remaining on the hook can be boring)
- boating season is shorter than in Greece
- sand beaches are extremely seldom

I posted a couple of pics from Croatia before we left to Greece: http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthrea...Croatia-Montenegro-S-Italy-summer-cruise-2014

 

[RichardS]

There is no more vignette!

"What's in a name? That which we call a rose by any other name would smell as sweet."

As far as I'm aware the "Vignette" is still payable annually but would be delighted if it can now be paid monthly like the Soujorn / Tourist tax. Please can you provide a link to further details?

....... and the HM in Rogoznica was still calling it "Vignette" a few months ago, probably because it's a lot easier to say than "Navigation, safety and pollution prevention fee".

Richard

 

[sailaboutvic]

I thought the correct name for the "sort of annual cruising tax" was vignette? Any way that was what I was referring to in my earlier post

The Vignette is now known as the Navigation, safety and pollution prevention fee , has Richard had said although some still refer to it has the Vignette , it's was around 48 euro in 2014 .
The Sojourn tax ie tourist tax for an 12/ 13 mts sailing yacht was 91 euros for 30 days or for 90 days 111 euro roughly in 2014 .you can also buy this for 8 days or a year .
Now unless things have charge , ( Richard correct me please ) that all you pay .
And yes you have to pay in KN , no different then if in England you would have to pay in pounds , or in Turkey in TL
The Sojourn tax is a tourist tax , everyone pays it , if you say in an hotel you also pay it , is not an cruising tax ,
For boat it's worked out on the size of boat the HP and now many on board .
Hope this helps.

 

[RichardS]

The Vignette is now known as the Navigation, safety and pollution prevention fee , has Richard had said although some still refer to it has the Vignette , it's was around 48 euro in 2014 .
The Sojourn tax ie tourist tax for an 12/ 13 mts sailing yacht was 91 euros for 30 days or for 90 days 111 euro roughly in 2014 .you can also buy this for 8 days or a year .
Now unless things have charge , ( Richard correct me please ) that all you pay .
And yes you have to pay in KN , no different then if in England you would have to pay in pounds , or in Turkey in TL

Hope this helps

Hi Vic ... you're right, that's all there is to pay. However, Alex says that the "Vignette" is now payable for short periods like the Sojourn/Tourist tax which is news to me as I thought it was still an annual tax. Hopefully Alex will provide more details.

Richard

 

[alexsailor]

I'll look it up how it is pronounced now. In Croatian language it is "Naknada za uporabu objekata sigurnosti plovidbe"

What @sailaboutvic and @RichardS are writing is true with just some small differences.
Let me say that in my 40years I spent almost all summers in Croatia so I know the region well.

Last eight years I am sailing and I keep my boat in Croatia and Slovenia (winter). Last five years I move in the summer for two months in Greece (ok I am not a live-aboard but I am training
Why I do not stay in Croatia?
First of all the number of bays with payable mooring buoys are growing each year. http://www.wosamma.at/bojenfelder/map.php
The problem is that this are the most beautiful bays and also well protected.
So in case of bad weather there can be situations when you have no choice.
And please be aware (THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT) that those mooring buoys are not insured so if there is any damage it is up to you!! Nevertheless you have paid (a lot of money) for one night.
It is wise to check the rope attached to buoy and to the bottom!

There is also the law (I will look for it and paste a link here) that says you have to pay for anchoring from the buoys to the coast and 150m (used to be 300m) out of the bay! Usually 50% to 75% of the buoy fee .That is for me the most irritating.

Croatia is Disneyland for charter. That is it. If you want to enjoy it, don't go there in high season.
I know Vic you have been there and you had a great time. Of course. It is possible.
But it is fair that we say how things are and you can not get the whole picture from just one cruising.

Croatian coast is more beautiful than Ionian islands. That is my opinion.
But as I wrote, there is no "free spirit" in Croatia since you have to argue and pay for almost everything.
Or you think you have to.
You also have to pay 10eur/day for license for fishing from a boat (or coast). Even for small kids.

So that is why I am sailing the whole Adriatic to Greece every year, for five years now.
I respect the sea, people, port police and I never had a bad experience.
I do not break the law but in Croatia almost every year I am stopped by police on the water just to look my papers…
Two times they searched my boat (hatches etc.) and I do not really like them to walk in my beautiful saloon in their heavy duty military boots.

My experience when I first sailed to Greece and anchored in Garitsas bay,Corfu was, that I was constantly looking around the bay when the police or a guy in small dinghy will come to me with a "bill" to pay for anchoring. It took me weeks to get over that bad felling inherited from years in Croatian waters.

Cavtat "case" that you are referring to is a rip off since that is a CUSTOM PIER but still a corrupted guy takes your money! Never go to CAVTAT! Make an entry in Lastovo or other places.

Every few month there is a new thread about Croatia and I am wondering if an administrator can not organise this in just one thread.
Every time I have to write the same things

The Sojourn tax used to be 50eur for my SY. Now I pay 1400HRK= 200eur!

 

[Hardmy]

+1 to everything you wrote, alexsailor

And please be aware (THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT) that those mooring buoys are not insured so if there is any damage it is up to you!! Nevertheless you have paid (a lot of money) for one night.
It is wise to check the rope attached to buoy and to the bottom!

Yes, e.g. on Cres (Kolorat) my boat started to move with the buoy in strong winds, albeit I gave enough rope in order to avoid lifting the buoy. Had to hold position with the engines or we would have ended on the rocks.

Cavtat "case" that you are referring to is a rip off since that is a CUSTOM PIER but still a corrupted guy takes your money! Never go to CAVTAT! Make an entry in Lastovo or other places.

I never had any problem with officials in whole Croatia, Cavtat being the only exception. I already wrote about our bad experience in this forum, I will never forget how they treated my father.

 

[sailaboutvic]

Hi Alex
Happy new year mate .

(I know Vic you have been there and you had a great time. Of course. It is possible.
But it is fair that we say how things are and you can not get the whole picture from just one cruising.)

Has you say it fair to get the whole picture and in some ways I agree in just a few months you don't alway get a good view what happening ,
so I can only tell you of my experience and in the three months we anchor every day ( see pilot site ) I thing 50 anchorages , our mooring fees for the time was just 30 euros , one night on a buoy ok I lied , we stayed three night but only paid for one has the other two night we wasn't about when the guy came .

We never see an PP or CO other then when we check in and out ,
one of the place we anchor was Paula Harbour we ask the PP where we could anchor , he took us out side and pointed a a place just way for the Marina , never said any thing about paying we stayed three days ( maybe we was just lucky)

Read Noonsite site and you find complains from people being fined for getting caught For not checking in at the first port of call , others left Croatia and returned with out checking out and checking back in .
FACT, Nearly Everyone of us break the laws at some point , most of the time we can talk our way out , but we can't break law and get caught and fined and then start screaming it not fair .
That's not to say you break the law .

Greece has it down side too. Break down , go aground , get tow in or call for help and see what happens . Once the PP find out the Boat Impounded and until you get a survey and in some cases a haul out , you won't be going no where .
More and more fishing harbour once free are now mini Marina , ok so far the fees are still quite low 10 or 15 euros a night plus 5 for power and 5 for water , let see in another few years .
Lucky like Croatia there hundreds of places to anchor .
New checkin now have to go and find the tax office before buying a GPBD , this can be a night mare depending where your checking in .
Still on some island the PP will insist in reporting in and having the GPBD stamp .
So has you see Greece too have it problem .

I know in the pass you wrote about problem you had with the authorities , is it because your under Slovenia flag ? , not that should make any difference . But hey you know how things can be .
We sailed most of the Med now and where ever you go you find problem the name of the game is finding a way around these problem ,

 

[alexsailor]

All the best in 2016 to you too, Vic.

Of course you can get in trouble in every country.
It is not that you'll get in trouble in Croatia for nothing.
I am just saying that compared to Greece erything is more expensive and strict (where police find it good for them)
As you are writing the "smell" of commercialism is present now in Greece.
That is why I know that in few year Greece will be probably the same as Croatia.
If people will not start to behave like that, government will force them to do so to gain more taxes (mooring buoys, small harbours with fees and so on).
So we should enjoy Greece while the sistem lasts and drink and eat out as much as we can since there are no anchoring fees.

Regarding my Slovenian flag. There are many many Slovenian flagged boats and it is not common that such boats would be a case of nationalism or politics.
Actually I never had such experience.

But nationalism is growing in Croatia rapidly.

I am a type of person that does not like repression of any kind.
For me buying a sailing boat was after years of motorcycle adventures in Europe and northern parts of Africa, the realisation of my dreams.
And I always wanted to be left alone by some police officers, harbour masters and so on.
I pay everything what should be paid, my boat is polished and well equipped and maintained.
Just do not bother me if I drop my anchor... And that kind of freedom I can only experience in Greece so far...

And when speaking about prices, I always write that my boat is 43" long. For most of the fees I've paid I keep the bill because I do like to back it up with evidence.

Also very important for such a debate is that facts are presented, not just "stories".
That is why I wrote, that I'll do my best to search links to all the laws regarding mooring buoys..etc..

 

[RichardS]

I'll look it up how it is pronounced now. In Croatian language it is "Naknada za uporabu objekata sigurnosti plovidbe"

"The Fee for the Use of Aids to Navigation" - yes, that sounds about right ....... but can it be paid weekly/monthly rather than annually as you said above? If so, please could you provide more information Alex.

Many thanks

Richard

 

[alexsailor]

"The Fee for the Use of Aids to Navigation" - yes, that sounds about right ....... but can it be paid weekly/monthly rather than annually as you said above? If so, please could you provide more information Alex.

Many thanks

Richard

Sorry. A little mistake. The right title is NAKNADA ZA SIGURNOST PLOVIDBE I ZAŠTITU OD ONEČIŠĆENJA
And it paid for the calendar year. So if you arrive in Croatia at, let's say 5th of May you'll pay till 31.12. in that year.

Turist tax can be paid for shorter period of time.

I'll try to firgure out how it is calculated for sailing boats.

 

[BrianH]

So if you arrive in Croatia at, let's say 5th of May you'll pay till 31.12. in that year.

That is correct, the entire pricing system for visiting yachts changed when Croatia acceded to the EU in 2013. Before, the Vignette, so named because it was a physical sticker that needed to be prominently displayed for control by the water patrols, was valid for 12 months and is now a calendar year. Before, as I used to do, it was possible to alternate cruises between late and early summer in a two year period and pay for only one vignette - no longer.

Also the Sojourn tax, previously the 'Kur-tax' imposed on marinas and buoy concession rates, which was copied from other countries as a per-head per-night tourist tax, now is levied at entry as a ship length fee, which means before I would pay only when in a marina or on a buoy and for one person as single-handed, now I have to pay for a fictive crew - or as the Umag harbourmaster told me, for the number of crew who may visit me while cruising Croatia. Unlike the Navigation, safety and pollution prevention fee (ex-Vignette), this can be paid for periods of 8, 15, 30 or 90 days or for the whole year.

 

[sailaboutvic]

That is correct, the entire pricing system for visiting yachts changed when Croatia acceded to the EU in 2013. Before, the Vignette, so named because it was a physical sticker that needed to be prominently displayed for control by the water patrols, was valid for 12 months and is now a calendar year. Before, as I used to do, it was possible to alternate cruises between late and early summer in a two year period and pay for only one vignette - no longer.

Also the Sojourn tax, previously the 'Kur-tax' imposed on marinas and buoy concession rates, which was copied from other countries as a per-head per-night tourist tax, now is levied at entry as a ship length fee, which means before I would pay only when in a marina or on a buoy and for one person as single-handed, now I have to pay for a fictive crew - or as the Umag harbourmaster told me, for the number of crew who may visit me while cruising Croatia. Unlike the Navigation, safety and pollution prevention fee (ex-Vignette), this can be paid for periods of 8, 15, 30 or 90 days or for the whole year.

Hi Barnacle
I am not sure if you have that right , it on the size of boat not the amount of visitors you may have over the summer ,

 

[Two Drifters]

Hi All

Thank you for the time and effort that has gone into some of the responses. All good info.

Still sitting on the fence.

VB
2D