Is a test sail customary when buying a used boat?

[Robin]

we had and gave sea trials on our last 3 purchases and 2 sales, but only after a deposit was paid and the trials were part of the survey day with surveyor and owner on board.

in the past I once gave a potential buyer a trial sail in a 23ft Halcyon bilge keeler only to have him pull out as it didn't have standing headroom,....der... headroom was the same as when it was viewed ashore. :ambivalence:.

 

[lpdsn]

I suspect it was my comment the OP was referring too. I still think a weekend charter would tell someone interested in a design much more than a couple of hours test sail. I've only ever heard of one test sail of a second hand boat amongst my acquaintances.

That said, I would consider a test sail for a serious prospective purchaser if ever selling my boat as I reckon an hour or two behind the wheel would sell the boat.

 

[Biggles Wader]

I suspect it was my comment the OP was referring too. I still think a weekend charter would tell someone interested in a design much more than a couple of hours test sail. I've only ever heard of one test sail of a second hand boat amongst my acquaintances.

That said, I would consider a test sail for a serious prospective purchaser if ever selling my boat as I reckon an hour or two behind the wheel would sell the boat.

I agree. We hear lots of stuff about tyre kickers and time wasters but selling is a difficult business and selling(most) boats is very difficult. In a buyers market you need to be flexible and cooperative or you just wont sell so having met and assessed the potential buyer it could well be worth a short test sail if they seem serious. When I bought,a few years ago now, I had a good long hard look over the boat and talked to the owner. As it became apparent I was serious various options were opened up including a sail. I didnt do the test but did do a short trial on purchase which proved all was working. If the seller had been an obnoxious pedant who didnt want to engage I probably wouldnt have bought the boat. If I was selling I would try very hard to accomodate a potential buyer once I thought them serious.

 

[Spyro]

One man's tyre kicker is another's potential buyer. It's not like there are loads of them queuing up to kick tyres. If someone is interested enough to make the right enquiries it's easy enough to see potential buyers. Giving up few hours to take someone out for a sail is a great way to sway their mind if they are just considering a purchase.(assuming you have nothing to hide). I could think of worse things I could be doing. As a buyer and a seller I'd expect a sea trial/test sail call it what you want.

 

[Tranona]

One man's tyre kicker is another's potential buyer. It's not like there are loads of them queuing up to kick tyres. If someone is interested enough to make the right enquiries it's easy enough to see potential buyers. Giving up few hours to take someone out for a sail is a great way to sway their mind if they are just considering a purchase.(assuming you have nothing to hide). I could think of worse things I could be doing. As a buyer and a seller I'd expect a sea trial/test sail call it what you want.

Suggest you talk to a few brokers who do this for a living. You may well then find that the assumptions you made about being able to identify a serious buyer are sadly misplaced. all enquiries are just that until they make an offer. You would be amazed at the stories people tell about how they love the boat etc and then either disappear or come up with a new set of reasons why they are not going to make an offer.

If you read the posts from real buyers here you will find few are the least bit interested in a sail before making an offer. It is often those who have no idea what they really want or who are not in a position to actually buy that tend to want a sail.

Of course you may get the odd person who will be converted by a sail, particularly if the boat is unusual, but mostly it is a wasted effort.

Can you still not see the difference between a test sail and a trial sail? The latter is clearly different and is part of the normal sale and purchase contract.

 

[Old Harry]

I've never test sailed any boat I've bought

Me also & have not been disappointed yet. best know what you are buying in the first place, imho.

 

[Seashoreman]

I agree. We hear lots of stuff about tyre kickers and time wasters but selling is a difficult business and selling(most) boats is very difficult. In a buyers market you need to be flexible and cooperative or you just wont sell so having met and assessed the potential buyer it could well be worth a short test sail if they seem serious. When I bought,a few years ago now, I had a good long hard look over the boat and talked to the owner. As it became apparent I was serious various options were opened up including a sail. I didnt do the test but did do a short trial on purchase which proved all was working. If the seller had been an obnoxious pedant who didnt want to engage I probably wouldnt have bought the boat. If I was selling I would try very hard to accomodate a potential buyer once I thought them serious.

This was moreorless my experience on last purchase through a large broker/marina in Essex.
I also followed BristolFashions bullet list.
I actually paid a 10% deposit on condition that I got a sea trial to reassure myself that all was well.
Its difficult to unfurl sails, test emgine in a cramped marina (in my opinion).
They made an appointment and obviously arranged a helm who appeared to be a retired guy.
All was well and I paid the balance after a couple of hours thrashing about and under motor.
Most of the points made here seem very valid but there are so many generalisations and values involved that it is obviously difficult to give a definitive answer. But if I am spending a substantial amount of money I would like a 'trip round the bay'.

 

[Spyro]

Suggest you talk to a few brokers who do this for a living. You may well then find that the assumptions you made about being able to identify a serious buyer are sadly misplaced. all enquiries are just that until they make an offer. You would be amazed at the stories people tell about how they love the boat etc and then either disappear or come up with a new set of reasons why they are not going to make an offer.

If you read the posts from real buyers here you will find few are the least bit interested in a sail before making an offer. It is often those who have no idea what they really want or who are not in a position to actually buy that tend to want a sail.

Of course you may get the odd person who will be converted by a sail, particularly if the boat is unusual, but mostly it is a wasted effort.

Can you still not see the difference between a test sail and a trial sail? The latter is clearly different and is part of the normal sale and purchase contract.

Of course I know the differnce but someone isn't going to have a test sail then a sea trial later, it can be done at the same time. Call it what you want.
Does being unpleasant come naturally to you or do youhave to work at it?

 

[Kelpie]

Well certainly for me it has been useful to consider the distinction between test and trial. Terms which I had come across but not really thought about the difference.
When I was selling, I was quite happy to take prospective buyers out for a sail- and perhaps this is part of the reason why I was able to sell the boat within a couple of months, after two viewings, and for close enough to my asking price for me to be happy with the deal. In fact come to think of it the only other boat I have sold, my first Wayfarer, was also subject to a test sail. I just thought this was normal, but from this thread it appears not!

Are 'tyre kickers' really such a big problem? It is such a buyers' market, with thousands of boats sitting on the market for literally years without selling, that I would have thought most motivated sellers would do everything they could to clinch a sale. I wasn't exactly inundated with enquiries when I was selling, but perhaps that is partly explained by my location, as any prospective buyer had to commit to a long overnight trip just to view the boat.

 

[Tranona]

Of course I know the differnce but someone isn't going to have a test sail then a sea trial later, it can be done at the same time. Call it what you want.
Does being unpleasant come naturally to you or do youhave to work at it?

I am not being unpleasant and sorry you seem to think that. The terms have very specific meanings in the contract to buy a boat and it does not help if you conflate them. The sea trial is a term of the contract and fulfils a different purpose from a "test sail" and is undertaken as part of the contract in connection with the survey. Its purpose is to confirm that the boat is as described and completion is subject to it being satisfactory. So a lot more at stake than just trying out a boat with no commitment to see if you like it enough to enter into a contract.

So your "call it what you want" is not helpful and can lead to confusion.

 

[Tranona]

Are 'tyre kickers' really such a big problem? It is such a buyers' market, with thousands of boats sitting on the market for literally years without selling, that I would have thought most motivated sellers would do everything they could to clinch a sale. I wasn't exactly inundated with enquiries when I was selling, but perhaps that is partly explained by my location, as any prospective buyer had to commit to a long overnight trip just to view the boat.

The surplus of boats compared with buyers is the problem, not helped by many being in an unsellable state. touring boatyards and brokers with a long short list (or even no real intention of buying) is for some a pastime. Instructive to spend a nice sunny weekend in one of the big yards on the south coast such as Hamble Point or Swanwick and see how many potential "tyre kickers" there are. Of course, distance does deter some, but again you would be surprised how many people make a short break out of viewing.

There is not an easy answer, but as many others have said, serious buyers have often ended up with a very short list, sometimes even just one class of boat before they do the serious stuff and establishing the condition and price of the boat is more important than going for a sale. I got my short list down to 3 competing boats before having any serious viewing even. Of course more difficult for people in their early years of boating because they don't have the experience to draw up a short, short list. Also more difficult if buying used because either there is not much choice of the boat you want or too many boats to choose from.

Given all that it is then difficult for a seller to weed out the serious prospects - even the professionals will tell you that.

 

[Bristolfashion]

Wouldn't you say that every business has "tyre kickers"? Quotes issued that go nowhere, endless discussions in retail shops, visitors to car show rooms etc. I think it's part of the buying and selling process. You've got to reel 'em in!

The "no time wasters" in adverts really puts me off. When I buy my next boat, I might look at 500 boat adverts, make extra enquiries on 50, look at 25 without bothering the owner, inspect 10 and 2nd inspect 2 or 3. I'll only buy one, but it doesn't mean I'm a keel kicker.

 

[Cockaigne]

I have bought three boats in my lifetime and went for a sail in each case before I decided whether to buy.

Would I have bought without sailing them first? Probably not. They were in commission so there was no reason for the sellers to refuse.

 

[jac]

Wouldn't you say that every business has "tyre kickers"? Quotes issued that go nowhere, endless discussions in retail shops, visitors to car show rooms etc. I think it's part of the buying and selling process. You've got to reel 'em in!

The "no time wasters" in adverts really puts me off. When I buy my next boat, I might look at 500 boat adverts, make extra enquiries on 50, look at 25 without bothering the owner, inspect 10 and 2nd inspect 2 or 3. I'll only buy one, but it doesn't mean I'm a keel kicker.

By definition if you buy something then you're not a tyre kicker.

But there is world of difference between someone talking in a shop or showroom and going for a test sail.
In the latter. the showroom is there, the staff are there, talking to people who pop in is part of the role. There is also no real pleasure for most people in trying out a new car. ( some models excepted ) and even then it's maybe 20 minutes.

With a boat - they are not sat in a brokers office. The broker will have to come away from the business for several hours to prepare the boat, go for a spin and then put everything back. There is also a major risk - not just the damage from wear and tear or an accident but from an unfamiliar person being in charge of a boat. In those 3-4 hours how many genuine people will he not see whilst dealing with the day tripper.


Or the owner comes down. Fine if they live close and are retired but for people living an hour or so away you could be looking at an hour each way to drive, say an hour each end to prepare the boat and leave mooring , put it all away again plus then the time for the jolly. Maybe 6 hours or more. And all that with no commitment from the " buyer" but who does get a lovely day trip.


Inspecting a boat ashore or even in a Marina is a different proposal. It's not really a pleasure trip, there is no risk of damage / wear and tear and the broker / owner doesn't have to spend time removing mooring lines, stowing dehumidifiers, removing shore power cables so the time spent is much less. There is also much less incentive for a time waster to come for a trip.

I do agree that it is a buyers market but when selling you want to get the best return on the sale but you also want the sale to go smoothly. Selling to some noob that wants a test sail suggests to me that they will spend the whole sale time asking stupid questions and expecting the world because they are spending £50k. Look at the issues that Robin had with his sale to the guy in America. Far better to spend longer selling but sell to a guy that does the normal process and isn't causing trouble.


Fully agree on the "No time Wasters" in the advert being annoying. ALmost as annoying as the "Offers on the asking price may be accepted" - Really?? - statement of the bloody obvious I would have thought.

 

[dunedin]

A lot of the “no test sails” assertions seem to be written purely from the brokers perspective.
Which is fine if there are lots of buyers chasing a boat with plenty of ready cash. But maybe doesn’t always reflect the potential buyers interests - and hence may lose the seller a sale or some value.

We flew over 500 miles to view a boat - which level of investment hardly suggests a tyre kicker. Looked a nice boat, but also a lot of money. I had hoped to get a short test sail after spending 3 days round trip, but the broker declined. He hadn’t travelled 200 mile round trip and spent most of the day. But lost the sale on the day because of this refusal.
The boat was great and I am must sure I would have bought on the day if he had invested an hour in a quick trip round the bay. But the refusal broke the spell and I got cold feet over the risk.

This cost the seller a lot of money. I went home, let them wait till they came back offering me the boat at 10% less than i was proposing when there face to face. And they still had to do a trial sail with the surveyor.
Expensive mistake by the broker

 

[Kelpie]

My experience of brokers so far is quite underwhelming. Usually I find I have done far more research about the type of boat and they are unable to answer pretty basic questions. The last one we saw he didn't know the difference between a Rocna and a Spade. I've had many email enquiries go unanswered.
One boat I enquired about recently led to a short reply from the broker promising more details, which never arrived. The next I knew, about a month later the boat was lowered in price by 25%. Clearly somebody keen to sell, but the broker cannot be bothered answering the queries of potential buyers.

 

[savageseadog]

My experience of brokers so far is quite underwhelming. Usually I find I have done far more research about the type of boat and they are unable to answer pretty basic questions. The last one we saw he didn't know the difference between a Rocna and a Spade. I've had many email enquiries go unanswered.
One boat I enquired about recently led to a short reply from the broker promising more details, which never arrived. The next I knew, about a month later the boat was lowered in price by 25%. Clearly somebody keen to sell, but the broker cannot be bothered answering the queries of potential buyers.

That surely can't be a surprise, they're dealing with the public

 

[[3889]]

The danger is that free loaders can take advantage. Brokers avoid offering test sails partly because experience shows that it rarely results in a sale and partly to protect the owner's interests.

Never really understood that argument as there aee abundant opportunities offered on Crewseekers et al for sailing so why go to the hassle if organising a test sail?
That aside, I test sailed my current boat though I could have accomplished the same without leaving the marina. I wouldn't bother again.

 

[johnalison]

Of the four new boats that I have bought, I test sailed two. I also test sailed one other and rejected it as not suiting my purpose; it was a bit heavy on the helm and other controls. Of the two that I didn't test, I don't think it would have made any difference since you can usually get a good idea by just looking at the boat's hull form.

I would be reluctant to put myself to the trouble of arranging a test sail if selling a boat. As far as I am concerned, in the second-hand market the buyer should already have decided if it was a design that they liked. Just like when you are offered a slurp of wine by the sommelier, you are not judging whether you have chosen the right wine or not, only whether it is in decent condition (which is why I only smell it). For a second-hand boat, a survey will display its condition, so long as some form of guarantee is available regarding the engine.

 

[oldmanofthehills]

The semantics of test sail and trial sail lose me. We insisted on a sail/engine test on our "new boat" we said design sound, particulars worn, offer reduced. The brokers or agents always seem disempowered, and the sellers unavailable or ignorant of the goods as it belonged to a n other (deceased) When they said sea test not available I said I would withdraw offer, but it should be axiomatic that buyer can inspect the goods