Is a test sail customary when buying a used boat?

[jac]

Are you coming from a broker point of view? We walked away from a from a few boats because the broker didn't take us seriously. One broker even said he could 'spot our type' from a mile away, and we were the kind of people who went from boat to boat wasting a broker's time but incapable of making the leap. A month later we found our girl, and have no regrets about walking away from the boats we did.

--
Sailing Pivo

Have always sold via a broker and had no issue selling reasonably quickly at a price that I was happy with.

I certainly wouldn't be happy to have to pay an additional percent or two to cover the brokers time to accompany a couple of joy riders or to give up a day to travel down to the boat, take some tourist out for a few hours then come back.

Most experienced people have a pretty good idea how an AWB sails and what does 3 -4 hours tell you? I certainly wouldn't let some day tripper take any boat of mine in and out of a confined space, if it was F6-7 or F1-2 I probably wouldn't go and anything will sail fine in a 3-4 round the Solent. It might be different if i was selling a classic or unusual boat but any volume boat will have loads of reviews / owners opinions telling you how they sail. The rest - can you reach the winches, see over the sprayhood, good handhold on deck you can test in a marina or on shore.

if someone wants to put in an offer, pay the deposit subject to sea trial and survey then that's absolutely fine. no problem with going through the boat with the new owner for day. For one sale i went for a sea trial, for the other a surveyor and broker ( Jonic of this parish) went along but i obviously did the handover

I have some sympathy for brokers in this case. lose a 1/2 day for a jolly is a bit different to showing someone over a static boat. the first takes a lot of time and risk and MAY be tyre kicker looking for a nice day out. the second is probably quicker, low risk and less likely to be attempted by someone wanting a day out on a nice boat they can't afford. Down at the cheaper end of the market ( sub £50k say) then the commission on the sale is marginal anyway for the work involved.

 

[Simon__]

I think there may be a misunderstanding here? Pivo’s revival of this thread appears to be a copy and paste of the blurb from a video they’ve just uploaded regarding a sea trial after a survey, rather than a test sail before making an offer.

I’d agree with some other posters that a test sail is likely just a jolly and not something I’d look to facilitate. However, on the other side of it, I’m not sure you could reasonably reject a boat after a trial because you don’t like the layout, manoeuvring, or speed without waving your deposit goodbye.

 

[Buck Turgidson]

I think there may be a misunderstanding here? Pivo’s revival of this thread appears to be a copy and paste of the blurb from a video they’ve just uploaded regarding a sea trial after a survey, rather than a test sail before making an offer.

I’d agree with some other posters that a test sail is likely just a jolly and not something I’d look to facilitate. However, on the other side of it, I’m not sure you could reasonably reject a boat after a trial because you don’t like the layout, manoeuvring, or speed without waving your deposit goodbye.

No but you could reject it for an unreliable engine or steering gear binding under load or unusual deck movement under load or instruments failing or any number of other things which show up that were not mentioned previously.

I guess you all buy cars without test drives too!

 

[Simon__]

No but you could reject it for an unreliable engine or steering gear binding under load or unusual deck movement under load or instruments failing or any number of other things which show up that were not mentioned previously.

I guess you all buy cars without test drives too!

I agree with what you’re saying and there’s definitely value in a sea trial. I suppose I was questioning some of the advice regarding what to look for during the sea trial as it seemed to fall into the “changed my mind” category rather than rejecting a boat due to a genuine fault; Confirming whether it’s the right boat for you and your needs isn’t the purpose of a sea trial imo, and if you find during the sea trial it isn’t as close winded as you like, or doesn’t suit your blue water plans, or you now can’t see yourself living on it full time, that isn’t a valid reason to reject a boat and reclaim your deposit.

 

[Lucky Duck]

No but you could reject it for an unreliable engine or steering gear binding under load or unusual deck movement under load or instruments failing or any number of other things which show up that were not mentioned previously.

I guess you all buy cars without test drives too!

When you bought you last house did you stay in it over the weekend to ensure everything was to your satisfaction?

Anyway, I suspect the reason for the thread resurrection was to try and increase the traffic to thier blog, YouTube channel or whatever.

 

[Fimacca]

I sold privately recently and took the buyer out for a spin in the bay to 'show them the ropes'.
This was before he paid for the boat. I had nothing to hide and I saw it as a safety issue - as he was getting on in age and sailing away soon in an unfamiliar boat - to him..
I don't expect the same experience when I buy my new tub. So far some brokers have shown no interest in my enquiry !
I will be checking the engine under load however, restart, etc.
I did have 2 tyre kickers look at mine, prior to a genuine party. I knew within 5 minutes they were a waste of time......

 

[38mess]

I sold my last boat to a young lady. She had never been on a boat before and she wanted to live on it, a 28 ft moody.
After an hour she said she had enough, gave me the asking price and lived on it for 8 years. It never moved in all those years. She has just sold it on I believe.

 

[jac]

No but you could reject it for an unreliable engine or steering gear binding under load or unusual deck movement under load or instruments failing or any number of other things which show up that were not mentioned previously.

I guess you all buy cars without test drives too!

Yes but that's a sea trial and a different beast entirely.

the usual convention linguistically is that a test sail is a pre offer - i.e. it could be a serious buyer or someone who just can't be bothered to do any research and fancies a nice sail to see if sailing or that boat is for him. A sea trial is after the offer has been accepted and is to ensure that everything works properly. so you might reject the boat as the engine won't start but not because you don't like the motion or she's too slow for example. the engine issue wouldn't be apparent until the trial, the speed would be obvious to anyone who looked at her SA/ Disp ratio or handicap numbers or just how tall the mast was and how much of a tub the hull was!

A sea trial is very sensible and i would want all that stuff checked before buying. A test sail is not for that.

 

[Buck Turgidson]

Yes but that's a sea trial and a different beast entirely.

the usual convention linguistically is that a test sail is a pre offer - i.e. it could be a serious buyer or someone who just can't be bothered to do any research and fancies a nice sail to see if sailing or that boat is for him. A sea trial is after the offer has been accepted and is to ensure that everything works properly. so you might reject the boat as the engine won't start but not because you don't like the motion or she's too slow for example. the engine issue wouldn't be apparent until the trial, the speed would be obvious to anyone who looked at her SA/ Disp ratio or handicap numbers or just how tall the mast was and how much of a tub the hull was!

A sea trial is very sensible and i would want all that stuff checked before buying. A test sail is not for that.

Ah..
I didn't even realise it was a resurrected thread. yes they suckered me in but I gave their youtube a thumbs down

 

[RichardS]

Ah..
I didn't even realise it was a resurrected thread. yes they suckered me in but I gave their youtube a thumbs down

Post #52 was a clue ..... but it does appear to have been a little too subtle.

Richard

 

[Birdseye]

Test sail? Out of 4 purchases I test sailed once and that was because I was going multihull. All the others you can get what performance info you might want off the net and the survey tells you what the state of the boat is. So if you know how a good xyz goes from magazine tests etc and the surveyor says "this is a good xyz" then what will you get from a test sail? You need time to bed in with a boat so a test sail will not tell you much.

 

[oldmanofthehills]

Bought 5 boats. 4 were on the hard and no way were we going to get them launched before sale.. Only reason for test sail is to check engine as everything else in survey or magazine reviews. The only one we test sailed the surveyor had already told us it was sh*t.

 

[sailaboutvic]

I wish people stop calling it a test sail , test sail if you you want to go along to see how a boat preform.
It a sea trail and the only reason for a sea trial is to test equipment that can't be tested on land ,
If the broker done his job right , once a deposit is paid contract signed and after the boat been surveyed and if and any majors faults found it's been agree how they would take place then the sea trail is done .
you cant then go out for a sea trail and want you deposit back because you don't like the way the boat sails .

I sold my last two boat privately both without as some want to call it a test sail , they both had sea trail after a contract was sign and deposit paid .

I would rather not sell the boat them mess around with taken people out for the day , I say this as I been caught out some years back, I wasted and whole day and not only my day but the guy booked a haul out and a surveyor the same day then walked away and never heard from him again , he didn't even cancel the surveyor or the Hual out .

 

[RupertW]

Bought 5 boats. 4 were on the hard and no way were we going to get them launched before sale.. Only reason for test sail is to check engine as everything else in survey or magazine reviews. The only one we test sailed the surveyor had already told us it was sh*t.

I agree a test sail isn’t always practical but it can tell you a lot more than the engine. Can the sails actually be hoisted and what condition are they in, does the autopilot work (compared to just seeing if it turns the rudder by pushing buttons at the berth) and lots more.

 

[jac]

I agree a test sail isn’t always practical but it can tell you a lot more than the engine. Can the sails actually be hoisted and what condition are they in, does the autopilot work (compared to just seeing if it turns the rudder by pushing buttons at the berth) and lots more.

That is a sea trial. basically - the sail ( or blocks or track) are so knackered that they don't go up ( or a re blown), the autopilot has no power etc.

A test is do i like sailing this boat

 

[RupertW]

That is a sea trial. basically - the sail ( or blocks or track) are so knackered that they don't go up ( or a re blown), the autopilot has no power etc.

A test is do i like sailing this boat

Semantics

 

[Zagato]

Suggest you talk to a few brokers who do this for a living. You may well then find that the assumptions you made about being able to identify a serious buyer are sadly misplaced. all enquiries are just that until they make an offer. You would be amazed at the stories people tell about how they love the boat etc and then either disappear or come up with a new set of reasons why they are not going to make an offer.

If you read the posts from real buyers here you will find few are the least bit interested in a sail before making an offer. It is often those who have no idea what they really want or who are not in a position to actually buy that tend to want a sail.

Of course you may get the odd person who will be converted by a sail, particularly if the boat is unusual, but mostly it is a wasted effort.

Can you still not see the difference between a test sail and a trial sail? The latter is clearly different and is part of the normal sale and purchase contract.

Old thread.... thought Tranona had returned for a minute there!

 

[RichardS]

Old thread.... thought Tranona had returned for a minute there!

See post #52.

Richard

 

[Resolution]

I wish people stop calling it a test sail , test sail if you you want to go along to see how a boat preform.
It a sea trail and the only reason for a sea trial is to test equipment that can't be tested on land ,
If the broker done his job right , once a deposit is paid contract signed and after the boat been surveyed and if and any majors faults found it's been agree how they would take place then the sea trail is done .
you cant then go out for a sea trail and want you deposit back because you don't like the way the boat sails .

I sold my last two boat privately both without as some want to call it a test sail , they both had sea trail after a contract was sign and deposit paid .

I would rather not sell the boat them mess around with taken people out for the day , I say this as I been caught out some years back, I wasted and whole day and not only my day but the guy booked a haul out and a surveyor the same day then walked away and never heard from him again , he didn't even cancel the surveyor or the Hual out .

Vic
I agree with your analysis above, and very much sympathise with the brokers who often suffer tyre-kickers. So it is ironic that my addiction to sailing all started with a total tyre-kicking nearly 50 years ago in Hong Kong. We were young and skint and facing the four days of Chinese New Year holiday with absolutely nothing to do. Someone spotted an advert for a Folkboat for sale and suggested we call up and ask for a test sail. I didn't know how to sail and had never even thought about getting a boat until then. The seller was obviously near desperate , coz he said Yes and even allowed us to take it out alone. Well, we had a lovely day (several hours!) and came back hooked. Although we had no money the bank agreed to lend us the deposit and the seller even agreed to take the balance in instalments. The boat was delightful, we learnt how to sail (by trial and error), and I have owned boats pretty much ever since.
Peter

 

[sailaboutvic]

Vic
I agree with your analysis above, and very much sympathise with the brokers who often suffer tyre-kickers. So it is ironic that my addiction to sailing all started with a total tyre-kicking nearly 50 years ago in Hong Kong. We were young and skint and facing the four days of Chinese New Year holiday with absolutely nothing to do. Someone spotted an advert for a Folkboat for sale and suggested we call up and ask for a test sail. I didn't know how to sail and had never even thought about getting a boat until then. The seller was obviously near desperate , coz he said Yes and even allowed us to take it out alone. Well, we had a lovely day (several hours!) and came back hooked. Although we had no money the bank agreed to lend us the deposit and the seller even agreed to take the balance in instalments. The boat was delightful, we learnt how to sail (by trial and error), and I have owned boats pretty much ever since.
Peter

Hang on a min if you was skint nearly 50 years ago , 50 years of owning boat , you must be desperate now and totally penny less
I know I am ,