scotty123
Well-Known Member
Make sure you can handle that big main, when dropping it, I sailed one with a very slippery sail no lazyjacks or boom bag, which was a nightmare to control even with 2 or more up on deck flaking.
Is a Sigma 38 too lively to singlehand?
- Thread starter James W
- Start date
Make sure you can handle that big main, when dropping it, I sailed one with a very slippery sail no lazyjacks or boom bag, which was a nightmare to control even with 2 or more up on deck flaking.
westhinder
Well-Known Member
Size is not the problem if the boat is set up for singlehanding. That means all the controls you usually need in places where you can easily reach them, a good autopilot and lazyjacks.
I regularly singlehand my 39 footer which has no bowthruster and it all goes without drama provided I think through the maneuvers before actually doing them. I find singlehanding has seriously improved my boathandling.
I regularly singlehand my 39 footer which has no bowthruster and it all goes without drama provided I think through the maneuvers before actually doing them. I find singlehanding has seriously improved my boathandling.
doris
Well-Known Member
The only problems I can think of will be the lack of a furler and the bolt rope on the main.
The main will be a bitch to drop and hoist solo if its not captive. A furler will make the headsail much easier even though even the no. 1 isn't large. The kites are perfect for short handed sailing, nice and small.
I had a 38, 41 and 362 before I had my Dehler 39. None of those boats was a problem solo when set up properly.
Go for it.
The main will be a bitch to drop and hoist solo if its not captive. A furler will make the headsail much easier even though even the no. 1 isn't large. The kites are perfect for short handed sailing, nice and small.
I had a 38, 41 and 362 before I had my Dehler 39. None of those boats was a problem solo when set up properly.
Go for it.
Quandary
Well-Known Member
Agreed, but many Sigma 38s (like ours) are cruised and have a furler that can quickly be added to the foil plus a captive main with high cut foot, we rarely cruised with our OD sails.
doug748
Well-Known Member
I am sure you will be ok, there has been some good advice about the sail wardrobe and you potentially have a crew available and two more coming along.
Just one word of caution, we are a broad church and when someone says "I regularly singlehand my 75 foot pilot cutter" what they may mean is:- Maybe once a season I take my boat out on my own, in good weather, always returning to my convenient berth with lines set up
Which is quite different to getting into a French tidal marina, unseen, in the gloaming, with a force 5 across the deck, and a short pontoon with no cleats. So take it steady, as the others say, sailing is the easy bit, getting alongside needs a bit of thought.
Just one word of caution, we are a broad church and when someone says "I regularly singlehand my 75 foot pilot cutter" what they may mean is:- Maybe once a season I take my boat out on my own, in good weather, always returning to my convenient berth with lines set up
Which is quite different to getting into a French tidal marina, unseen, in the gloaming, with a force 5 across the deck, and a short pontoon with no cleats. So take it steady, as the others say, sailing is the easy bit, getting alongside needs a bit of thought.
Lightwave395
Well-Known Member
I have a Lightwave 395 - in it's day the alternative choice to a sigma 38 on which I've sailed many times in their racing heyday. I've solo'd and double handed my LW many race and cruising miles over my 14 years of ownership and I'm sure with minor changes a Sigma 38 would be every bit as enjoyable to sail short handed (ask Rob Craigie of SORC, who raced one solo a few years back)
My LW now has a furling high clew headsail, batten cars, a stackpack, a bloody good autopilot, an ATN kite snuffer and a carbon pole and has done both long'ish solo / double handed races and three month cruising trips without any handling issues. As to berthing, a line on the midships cleat usually solves most short handed challenges.
Sigma 38's (and Lightwaves if you can find one) offer great value these days, I looked for one when I bought my Lightwave but sadly most of them had been beaten to death by sailing schools...
My LW now has a furling high clew headsail, batten cars, a stackpack, a bloody good autopilot, an ATN kite snuffer and a carbon pole and has done both long'ish solo / double handed races and three month cruising trips without any handling issues. As to berthing, a line on the midships cleat usually solves most short handed challenges.
Sigma 38's (and Lightwaves if you can find one) offer great value these days, I looked for one when I bought my Lightwave but sadly most of them had been beaten to death by sailing schools...
James W
Well-Known Member
Some fantastic advice there, thanks so much everyone.
AngusMcDoon
Well-Known Member
I single hand my Dragonfly 920. It's has the same sail white sail area as a Sigma 38 driving hulls weighing only 2 tonnes, so that's a lively boat compared to a relatively pedestrian Sigma 38, but I manage it fine, so I don't see why you wouldn't. Contrary to what doug478 says, I sailed 2000 miles this year, all of them on my own, and in winds where some days I wished I'd stayed in bed that day.
James W
Well-Known Member
Viewed the boat today. My god, they certainly look fast!!
I know that she was raced in a former life, but can't believe how good she looked on the exterior. The topsides were gleaming and the deck was virtually stress crack and crazing free. The cabin was a slightly different matter, not terribly bad, but the some of the woodwork had seen better days and the floor was a little bashed up. The aft cabins are huge though, and would be perfect for the kids. She also has a proper ram autopilot and (reasonably) up to date electronics, so that's a major plus.
Downsides, the layout is a bit racy with the tiny crew berths, there isn't a whole heap of stowage, and the forward v berth is more 2 singles than a double. Oh, and the engine is a 2000 series VP, not brilliant but it looks well serviced.
So all in all, a nice looking boat. There's a few more to look at yet, but she does tick a lot of boxes.
Thanks to all for your help and experience.
BarryWhite
Well-Known Member
Hello, could someone tell me the headroom of a Sigma 38 ?
scotty123
Well-Known Member
Depends upon how tall you are.
markhomer
Well-Known Member
Anyone buying a boat designed for racing with a full crew siting on the rail should consider wether using the same boat to sail short handed will, perform just as well with reduced sail area , they are designed with the extra righting moment to carry more sail to push the hull through th3 water , reduce power same hull ???
oldmanofthehills
Well-Known Member
Though the idea of a big boat is nice a one design is designed for racing not cruising. Thus likely to be a lively not a stable boat. I know one can reduce sail to keep her in check but she would be designed fordifferent purposes.
The biggest problem however might be berthing or mooring. A friend is finding it increasingly hard to manage his mere 35ft.
Mid point cleat mooring is fine but the tonnage of boat makes it hard, and forget for and aft trots. You would neither have the strength nor speed to to that.
Even a 6 ton boat is hard to bring to a stand by man strength and a 38 footer weighs much more. Maybe on swinging mooring you might manage by repeat attemps but going into a marina berth on any kind of windy day would risk an insurance job unless you have shore side helpers .
Of course if your wife can assist breifly and leave the kids to their own devices for 5 minutes you are only semi-single handed and the liveleyness of a racing boat is your only concern.
The biggest problem however might be berthing or mooring. A friend is finding it increasingly hard to manage his mere 35ft.
Mid point cleat mooring is fine but the tonnage of boat makes it hard, and forget for and aft trots. You would neither have the strength nor speed to to that.
Even a 6 ton boat is hard to bring to a stand by man strength and a 38 footer weighs much more. Maybe on swinging mooring you might manage by repeat attemps but going into a marina berth on any kind of windy day would risk an insurance job unless you have shore side helpers .
Of course if your wife can assist breifly and leave the kids to their own devices for 5 minutes you are only semi-single handed and the liveleyness of a racing boat is your only concern.
flaming
Well-Known Member
If you're talking about a sportsboat designed for round the cans only, then sure.
But you're talking about a Sigma 38, which is a solid offshore boat, designed specifically for offshore racing. So this is simply not an issue at all. Plenty of Sigma 38s cruise. Plenty have competed fairly successfully in double handed racing.
So, no a Sigma 38 isn't too lively to singlehand. It's a very solid boat.
Having read what the OP wants to do with it though, it wouldn't be top of my list.
Quandary
Well-Known Member
I have given my advice already but would comment that it is a pity that folk who know so little about the subject are so dogmatic with their information and opinions. In 12 years of ownership I can not recall problems with handling, or berthing anchoring etc. related to the boats size or displacement, the reason that we downsized was that with only two people aboard we no longer needed ten berths, and our local boat club has a yard limit at 33 ft. her more modern 33' ft.replacement had a taller mast and more sail area.
There are more reliable places to check the displacement, air draught, sail area, stability etc .
Some facts - Sigma 38 OOD
Datum weight - 6580 kgs, keel lead/iron compsite 2640kgs.
Mainsail luff 14.48m. foot 5.18m. Big genny 135%, luff 13.25
Primary winches Lewmar 52s Halyard winches Lewmar 40s
I am afraid I can no longer recall the headroom though I can not recall anyone having a problem with it.
There are more reliable places to check the displacement, air draught, sail area, stability etc .
Some facts - Sigma 38 OOD
Datum weight - 6580 kgs, keel lead/iron compsite 2640kgs.
Mainsail luff 14.48m. foot 5.18m. Big genny 135%, luff 13.25
Primary winches Lewmar 52s Halyard winches Lewmar 40s
I am afraid I can no longer recall the headroom though I can not recall anyone having a problem with it.
Lightwave395
Well-Known Member
I don't understand this "too lively" nonsense and surely the answer to berthing worries, if you have them, is understanding your boats motoring characteristics, using any wind and tide to your advantage and practice.
Each to their own of course, but for me just because I'm cruising it doesn't mean I want to go slowly - sailing still needs to be fun, even if you're in your 70's as am although I do understand that not everybody's wives / girlfriends / significant others might agree...
My "cruising rig" is a slightly smaller main and a high clew furling headsail and no, we don't sail "on our ear" everywhere as I'm lucky enough to have a stiff boat with a modern fin and bulb keel so double figure or close to speeds are not uncommon for us. I know when we get into the 10-12 knot zone as my partner lady starts chuckling. My rig setting chart revolves around maintaining the ability to comfortably make tea and organise lunch, whilst still cracking on.
Go get you a Sigma 38, they are/were good enough for many sailing schools and they will look after you and your family.
Each to their own of course, but for me just because I'm cruising it doesn't mean I want to go slowly - sailing still needs to be fun, even if you're in your 70's as am although I do understand that not everybody's wives / girlfriends / significant others might agree...
My "cruising rig" is a slightly smaller main and a high clew furling headsail and no, we don't sail "on our ear" everywhere as I'm lucky enough to have a stiff boat with a modern fin and bulb keel so double figure or close to speeds are not uncommon for us. I know when we get into the 10-12 knot zone as my partner lady starts chuckling. My rig setting chart revolves around maintaining the ability to comfortably make tea and organise lunch, whilst still cracking on.
Go get you a Sigma 38, they are/were good enough for many sailing schools and they will look after you and your family.
lw395
Well-Known Member
That matches my opinion of them. A solid medium weight cruiser racer.
Reasonable ballast, not overly dependent on fat on the rail, but it always helps.
It won't be like parking a big dinghy, you need skill and practice not manual force.
I don't know why people are so hung up on headroom. I'm tallish, if I want to stand up straight I go on deck. The expectation of walking nonchalantly around below decks just shouldn't be there on any boat under about 60ft, there's always bulkheads and stuff to bang your head on even on quite spacious boats. The worst is a boat with mostly just enough headroom, which means some feature on the deckhead gets people every time. It's a boat, you need to be aware where you're putting your head!
And there loads more headroom once it's heeled 15 degrees....
Quandary
Well-Known Member
We had given up serious racing in 1995 unable to afford the time and hold the crew a serious campaign demanded, sold our Sigma 33 and then went to Southhampton to look for a boat to go cruising, tempted by the X334, but the Sigma 38 was better value, Northshore had their first S38, (very pricey and the only one they made )there that year but I liked the Marine Projects original better and could afford it. We kept ours for 12 years cruising either side of the North Channel, we also did evening points racing (everybody did then) often racing her with only the two of us and in summer we recruited a couple of extra crew and took her to WHYW racing whitesail and sometimes winning.
That we kept her for 12 years indicates an easily managed and maintained boat, her current owner keeps her out on the West Coast and uses her only for cruising but has already owned her for another 12 years with three generations of his family enjoying her. It was a mistake to have sold her, I still find her attractive when she passes, but her replacement served us well too.
That we kept her for 12 years indicates an easily managed and maintained boat, her current owner keeps her out on the West Coast and uses her only for cruising but has already owned her for another 12 years with three generations of his family enjoying her. It was a mistake to have sold her, I still find her attractive when she passes, but her replacement served us well too.
D
Deleted member 36384
Guest
I have sailed one quite a few times with inexperienced crews on a 38, and a sailing school out of Kip Marina used one for teaching as well. Both were handled with short handed crew and inexperienced crews. No one sat on the rail to keep the boat under control. Handling under power was excellent, easily berthed forward or in reverse, with a reasonable kick in astern to be helpful without being overpowering. I have sailed the 29, 31, 36, 362, 38 and 41. While I liked the 41, the 38 was my favourite. I have a memory of running backstays but I cant remember if that was the 362 (retrofitted because of a pumping mast) or the 38. Running backstays can be a faff. For single handing I would tend to go for a smaller boat. I single hand my Rival 41 but to be honest when I get more worn out a smaller yacht will be called for. Regarding berthing, my Rival is a dog under power, the 38 will be a dream, and I have mastered single line mooring along side from the centre cleat. Hence, at 38' with a more manoeuvrable yacht, I would not let this be an issue.
Regarding 'conservative' sailing just don't leave and you should be fine, that's a joke by the way. Yes, they can be sailed conservatively and will still perform as demonstrated on the teaching boat that was not sailed to maximum regularly, that is my experience, the hulls have sufficient forefoot and are less impacted by wave slap than more modern hulls.
Go and see it. For the right price, in good condition, it could be a reasonable choice. However, beware, it is entering old boat age and down that road is the potential to spend a lot of cash, post purchase. Then again ........
