Invisible women

[Becky]

I don't mean to be sexist, but when I am with HWMBO, I become invisible. Even when I had my own boat. If I went somewhere on my own, it would be 'Becky, you actually sailed on your own? How clever, I wish I could do that' from (some) other women. From men I would get a boost to being 'an equal', and they would see me and talk to me as if I was another human being- an honorary man. But if I go anywhere with Richard, be it a stand at a Boat Show, or a Sailing Club rally, then I seem to vanish, and all conversation is exclusively addressed to him, even when I ask the questions (at a boat show). I realise that sailing is a 'man thing', but I used to enter classic rallies with one of my sons as co-driver, and men spoke to me then. It was quite fun, as expensive, but a lot drier (most of the time). But now, even Richard notices what happens, and it is quite funny really. I do not intend to be feminist over this, it is just an observation.
So, do the male forumites recognise female sailors? Or do you assume women will not understand your conversation when they are with a man?

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[powerskipper]

I have had this at boat shows too, but when I am the one disappearing down the engines room they do seem to take notice then!!!

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://powerskipper.mysite.freeserve.com/>http://powerskipper.mysite.freeserve.com/</A>
Julie

 

[FWB]

Hi Becky, My---sorry OUR---boat was featured in Classic Boat earlier this year. It was a great article but we BOTH laughed at the way SWMBO had apparently been either airbrushed out or the boom covered her face and so on. At one point it mentioned that it only took ME a few minutes to oil some our teak, when in fact she does it. Whenever someone comments on the boat our reply now is that " it only takes ME a few minutes to keep it looking nice ".
At least SWMBO can laugh at it, mind you I do think my tea has tasted a bit funny ever since.

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[Mike21]

Never actually thought about it, as wife's a qualified instructor, though remember going with SWMBO on her first delivery, and owner thought I was the skipper instead of being just the crew, though the owner's wife appreciated her being skipper not sure about him, think he was bit shocked/forums/images/icons/smile.gif

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[Talbot]

Clare Francis was really the starter for this, and today with the likes of Tracey Edwards, Ellen Macarthur et al, most men would be starting to realise that this is not (and should never have been) a male dominated preserve.

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[boatless]

Bit like being a man at an antenatal class. Or, come to that, at school pick up. Man/capable parent = Woman/skipper.

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[Gunfleet]

We've all seen it and I don't think it's particularily feminist to point it out. My wife and my mother in law pointed out this failing in male psychology to me years ago (a sufferer? What me?) and since I have assiduously concentrated on being polite and attentive to the ignored female party. You learn a lot, get lots of interesting information and it costs nothing! Perhaps a swift dig in the ribs of your Mr will remind him he is allowed to do more than merely observe male sailors' bad manners!

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[Peppermint]

is a well known "barrier to sales" in a lot of fields. Garages and car showrooms being typical. Salesmen. You can train em till your blue in the face but the stereotypes go deep. It does cut both ways though. Even supermarket checkout staff "female" are amazed if a man can open a new carrier bag or takes part at all. One problem is that in an attempt to overcome their invisibility, many women are becoming agressive. Or "snotty bitches" as salesmen call them. Strangely women salesmen in "macho" industries are almost as stereotypical as the men.

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[Iota]

Over the years a number of garages have lost sales as they have insisted on talking to me even though we have made it clear that Jacqui is the one purchasing. We even tried things like I would stand back or if sitting pushing my chair further back than hers. All to no avail. When we bought our second boat she refused to buy one company because when we bought our first boat they would not talk to her even though I was at times travelling and unavailable and she was a manager in a utility!!!! Her / my current grouch even though all our financial accounts are joint they still call me...she calls them ....they then call me!!!! Her view is simple men are easier targets for sales!!!!!

Iota

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[Sybarite]

My experience is that you have a broad range of capabilities/application/enthousiasm which can either frustrate or delight.

The absolutely worst crew member (female) happened to have a Cambridge First; the best was possibly the fifteen year old school friend of my daughter. The poor girl now has been reduced to living on a boat in Tahiti - and providing the text for Philippe Plisson's marine photography books.

Women have demonstrated what they can do when they want to ( Florence Arthaud, Isabelle Autissier, Karine Fauconnier - to add to the list others have started). Unfortunately many do not share men's enthusiasm or have been put off by insensitive skippers/partners.

I understand your frustration.

John

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[Evadne]

Nobody has mentioned builders yet. My wife insists that I do all the negotiating when it comes to getting work done one the house. The men involved just don't take women seriously, and will always assume that I have the last say in the matter and am in full control of the finances!

When it comes to sailing we are, however a "traditional sailing couple", with me (nominally) in charge. That doesn't mean that SWMBO is of lesser importance or that the man is always the skipper in another boat. And even if both were true, a gentleman should never ignore a lady anyway. It's not just sexist, its rude.


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[ubuysa]

Do what Tessa (my SWMBO) did at LIBS last year - she had a tee-shirt made that said "Actually I DO know what I'm talking about". It did make a difference!

Tony C.

<hr width=100% size=1>Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.......

 

[Magic_Sailor]

You're exactly right. I notice people (including other women) doing it with my Wife Pauline - and not only in boaty situations - I find it embarrasing.

Feminism and PC is not the answer - it just put peoples backs up (including Pauline's).

Magic

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://practical-business.co.uk>Click for website!</A>

 

[pragmatist]

Well I could be sexist about it if the prevalent attitude wasn't so extreme it's funny. When you answer the phone for a male member of your staff and are asked for the nth time if you're his secretary ... When you take a male delivery crew with you and the marina staff ask him to pay ...

And it isn't just assumptions about sex - it's age too. A grey-haired friend agreed to give us a hand into an awkward craning berth. And he was the one asked for instructions !

The only answer is to prove the stereotypes wrong. Or you could save up some really difficult technical questions and see the salesman twitch ! I had lengthy conversations with a solar panel supplier and he was very nice about it - if rather surprised that I understood anything about electricity !

<hr width=100% size=1>a pragmatist is an optimist with a boat in the UK - but serious about not being in the UK !

 

[Gunfleet]

living cliche!

I can't open those thin carrier bags.

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[pragmatist]

Re: living cliche!

No but then noone can - that's why Tesco's staff are trained to open a pile for the punters !

<hr width=100% size=1>a pragmatist is an optimist with a boat in the UK - but serious about not being in the UK !

 

[Magic_Sailor]

It's not just men that ignore the women - it's women.

When we have pals around for dinner, Pauline says something and the female half of the other couple replies mostly to me! It makes me squirm and like someone else said above I try to look away or move backwards to encourage them to look at Pauline.

I don't think that me saying anything would do any good as it could be seen as a little condescending by all concerned.

The lady has a difficult path to tread - between being a bit more assertive and a little too abrasive.

On a lighter note - Pauline just ignores me all the time /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

Magic

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://practical-business.co.uk>Click for website!</A>

 

[smee]

You are absolutely right, it has happened countless times to me!

The broker when I bought my boat however couldn't ignore me in favour of a man, as there was no man around....... so he spoke to my chest instead!!!!!

If the men do take notice it is usually because they want to "crew"!!

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[Gunfleet]

You took a chest? I just took a chequebook.

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[KevB]

Did somebody say something??/forums/images/icons/wink.gif

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