Invisible women

Out buying a new Musto for SWMBO, bloke in chandlers insisted on talking exclusively to me, while she was fitting/wrestling with jacket. Like buying clothes for a child. Embarassing, esp. because I was only along in order to have a bit of choice at our next stop, the garden center...

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Re: living cliche!

What thread?

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://static.photobox.co.uk/public/images/45/99/10714599.s.jpg?ch=97&rr=16:00:39>Nirvana</A>
 
It's so true, Becky - when HWMBO and I took a test sail in our (now) new boat, I would ask the owner a question and find myself completely ignored, until he patronisingly asked if I thought I could cope with helming for a few minutes so he could show my husband the foredeck.

Ever seen "The Fast Show" on T.V? They do a series of sketches with a woman trying to talk with a group of men about different so called "blokey" things. She is treated as if she isn't there, then one of the blokes says the exact thing she just did.

Many a true word, I think...

<hr width=100% size=1>Definition of an expert: An Ex is a has-been, and a Spurt is a drip under pressure...
 
According to Arabella Weir, she got the idea from the way in which the (mainly male) remainder of the cast of The Fast Show tended to behave towards her in the early days of the programme.

She said that she exaggerated what really happened, for comic effect - but only a bit.

SWMBO and I have had the sexist salesman routine on several occasions when looking at cars. They seemed to be labouring under the impression that it would be the colour of the car that would clinch the deal, rather than how comfortable it was, performance, handling, economy etc. And they also thought that I would make the decision and discuss price, even though the car was for her and she's an experienced negotiator. Cretins...........

<hr width=100% size=1>Je suis Marxiste - tendance Groucho
 
Unfortunately, for me it has been a fact of life - I try not to let it p*** me off anymore. I became a skipper early in my sailing career. But, yes if I had a pound for every time this happened to me - I'd be rolling in it!

As said before it isn't just the men - the women also 'expect' me to be the clueless galley slave.

The best bit is the look on their faces when I show them how wrong they are.


Just a couple of plum ones come to mind.

Guest on yacht going from US west coast to Hawaii - getting increasingly concerned when land did not show up when HE expected it to according to HIS 'navigation'. This was back in the days before GPS and I was well practiced in art of astro-nav....

He was new to sailing and was extremely worried about my ability to find my way accross an ocean using celestial. The fact that he was accompanied by a complete bimbo probably accounted for his mindset.

Land showed up exactly when and where I said it would, I even told him (truthfully) that the land could be smelt prior to sighting it.

He never got over his doubting though and probably thought he had imagined the whole thing and left the yacht mumbling oddly.


Then there was the US Coastguard officer who could not address me when they boarded the vessel, (standard procedure for the area). He could not bring himself to address me and instead conducted his 'interview' by speaking to the (very un-seaman-like) male guest who stood beside me the whole time looking like dumbstruck chimp.

Ahhh ain't life grand....


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Wish someone knew the answer to this one - if they do please let me know.

Despite having 2 degrees (and being on the way to a Phd), being able to talk knowledgeably about cars, the internet and motorbikes and previously been the marketing manager of an international company I still come accross this all the time. I am unluky enough to be blonde with a curvy figure and find that more often than not my chest gets talked to rather than my brain. When I discovered sailing (earlier this year) I thought that it would be a pretty level playingfield (good joke) but no! It is totally male dominated. Where I sail it is always assumed that the females are simply there for the ride. OK, so I am a beginner with limited knowledge but I am keen and intelligent and I can learn. I have met some lovely skippers during my first seasons sailing and have no specific gripes about anyone - it's just that there seems to be a pervading 'attitude' to women in sailing (evidenced on this forum) - they seem to be regarded as either gold digging opportunists or hatchet faced dominatrix. It is so hard to steer a course between standing up for yourself and being thought of as pushy and agressive and break out of the stereotypes. Any suggestions?

PS The first guy who refers to me as SWMBO is fish bait!

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It happens all the time, but I went the opposite way and made the mistake of thinking all men are useless just because some of them are. Back in the days when I looked for my first job I found that many men thought women would leave to get married and have babies and was rejected at interview on more than one occasion for such stated reasons. We have come a long way but there is still a lot to do and we can do it, with gentle persuasion. I would say that I have been treated with respect by sales reps and other men at the Boat Show when I have been asking technical questions so not all men are blinkered.

I have friends who are wheelchair users, or walk with some obvious impairment and they get ignored in the shopping precincts by catalogue reps, market researchers and double glazing sales people (both sexes ignoring disabled people). Maybe its a good thing to not be hassled, but they also feel invisible.

Ah well stereotyping has a lot to answer for.



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pair-a-docs

Quote: "PS The first guy who refers to me as SWMBO is fish bait!

Hmm, I'm not known as the smartest one around, but this seems to be causing a paradox. Anyone not complying to that order will be tossed overboad. Anyone respecting that rule automattically puts you in a "to be obeyed to" position......... :)

On a more serious note, to me it seems that once again Brittain is a couple of decades behind. Here in Holland, sailing seems to be a more family related sport/leisure and quite often I find wummin the better boat handlers.

Perhaps it's me generalising this time.. better to shut up..

Rene

<hr width=100% size=1>Never attempt to teach a pig to sing.
It is a waste of time and it annoys the pig.
 
Just get on with learning and pick brains where you can, anyone involved with boats loves to talk boats, They will slowly realise that you are keen and know what you are talking about, respect will grow for your ability as you acquire it, The first time someone asks you for advise is worth all the work.
" gold digging opportunists or hatchet faced dominatrix."

I was treated with scepticism when I first started working in the Marine industry, some people I am sure though I was just looking for a rich husband etc, [ I have one and 2 Kidd's , that enough thank you]

Some expected me to be very dominant, I am not, I expect people to behave well etc and most have.
On a lets embarrass the girl attitude they normally loose./forums/images/icons/wink.gif

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://powerskipper.mysite.freeserve.com/>http://powerskipper.mysite.freeserve.com/</A>
Julie
 
Re: pair-a-docs

The PS was meant to be tongue in cheek but love your response. Holland here I come - well next year anyway - all I need presumably is a family. Are they on special at ASDA this week?

Cheers Olly

PS Your signature always makes me laugh!

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Hi Julie,

You certainly look to have it sussed (been on your website). I'm doing Day Skipper practical over Winter and my practical asap next Spring so am really trying to catch up on the knowledge side. I certainly look forward to the day when someone asks MY advice and let's face it in coastal gear everyone looks like a Teletubbie anyway.

Thanks

Olly

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I worked last year as a flotilla skipper in Greece for the company that bills itself as 'The Activity Specialists.'

My mate was female, and equally as good a sailor and instructor as me.

All the skippers were male, but towards the end of the season they had a couple of female flotilla skippers.

However, this company would only have female mates (hostesses) with female skippers. It was policy that male hosts/mates 'never worked'.

The only company I know that has employed a male hostie in the past is Sunsail, and that bloke went on to be a skipper and achieved a fairly senior position in their Greece organisation.

My point is? I dunno, but from my experience there is a male/female divide in sailing, I think that blokes tend to be into sailing more than women in general.


<hr width=100% size=1>At the end of the day - Sunset.
 
Re: pair-of-socks

For females it is easy to imitate a sialing-family when single-handed. Make sure you have a nice colourfull (matching!) outfit and you've covered the girlie aspect. Shout at the crew (yourself) on a regular base and you've covered the "manly" aspects as well. For male singlehanders this is quite difficult since most of them (including myself) can't even match a pair of socks.......

Oh and we do try to give all UK sailors a warm welcome once arrived in Holland. In general this seems to be returned as well.

Rene.



<hr width=100% size=1>Never attempt to teach a pig to sing.
It is a waste of time and it annoys the pig.
 
I do hope your last paragraph was tongue-in-cheek or you're likely to get a verbal duffing up on this forum - instance many of the posts on this thread.

<hr width=100% size=1>a pragmatist is an optimist with a boat in the UK - but serious about not being in the UK !
 
Surely his last paragraph is a simple reflection of reality? Generally sailing is a male thing and the females "go along with it". Not always, but generally, that's the case surely?

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