Insurance

[Yealm]

Just had my renewal quote with Pantaenius for following year- £820.

Can’t remebrr what it was last year but this seems a lot for a 40 year old Contessa 32 !
I’ve never claimed.

Wondered what others are paying?

 

[Sandy]

Might be worth asking them to check their figures. For UK coastal waters I am paying a lot less than that with another company.

 

[[3889]]

Just been offered renewal with Y at £420, UK to Gib for a 36' AWB. That's a 30% increase over two years with a slight extension of cruising area. I received a letter with renewal explaining the reasons for the premium increase which seemed pretty plausible. The salient points:

"I have been involved in the yacht and motor boat insurance market for about thirty years
and have never seen such violent activity in this field as is occurring now. As a result of
poor underwriting, Lloyd’s has suffered exceptional losses in recent years from yacht and
motor boat insurance and is taking extreme steps to rectify this problem. Many
underwriters no longer cover yachts and motor boats and others will follow. We are now
in what is known as a “hard market”.
Our underwriters have also suffered losses on the business we have placed with them
over the last two years and needless to say this problem needs to be rectified. An in depth
analysis of claims has been made and I wish to share some of this analysis with you.
Despite having several yachts in the Caribbean and Pacific we have had no Named Wind
Storm losses. The significant losses are occurring in Europe. Some interesting facts have
immerged. No increase in premium could make serious racing yacht insurance profitable.
We will therefore not cover any more serious racers.
Lightning strikes in the Mediterranean occur often and are very expensive. The majority
of these claims happen when yachts are ashore or in marinas. Also many collisions and
groundings take place in the Eastern Mediterranean. Rates for the Mediterranean will
increase.
Another interesting fact came out of our claims analysis. The majority of collisions and
groundings were suffered by our more experienced clients!
Underwriting losses are caused by either not enough premiums being charged or too
much being paid out by underwriters as a result of too generous insurance clauses.
There is no way I am going to accept less generous insurance clauses for my clients so
sadly premiums must increase.
There is no doubt that costs of claims have increased over the years by virtue of inflation
but it is also true that premium rates have been kept artificially low by competition.
Indeed, if premiums had annually increased at annual UK inflation rates, premiums
would now be 25% higher than eight years ago. Apart from a small increase some clients
experienced last year our rates have not increased in eight years.
As previously stated an increasing number of insurers are no longer insuring yachts and
motor boats so our remaining competitors will also be increasing their rates.
We will keep increases to a little as possible and will continue to provide the service
which has kept us at the top of the boating forums. The increase in premiums is
necessary to cover the risks our policies currently cover. None of the increase will
pay for previous underwriting losses."

 

[Dan Tribe]

My insurers, GJW, wanted a new survey this year. Due to various reasons I was unable to get the survey completed before the renewal date. I phoned to explain, they said no problem.
Because of all this I was 2 days late in making the renewal, so phoned to make the payment today. They said "Sorry, can't be done, we are now on a new system, we'll re-quote". I don't like the sound of that!
But the new quote is HALF the old one and they have extended the survey date for a year. When I queried it I was assured that the revised policy is identical to the old cover.
Sometimes it pays to procrastinate!

 

[doug748]

Very roughly, I think Pantaenius have operated on about 1.5% of insured value in the past.

So unless your valuation is in the 50 grand regions, this sounds well off.

 

[gertha]

Pantanius have included a story with this years renewal, it is very sad and it nearly reduced me to tears.
Basicly it says we have been loosing money and now you are going to pay about 35% more.
I will be writing a similar letter to all my customers pointing out my yacht insurance has just shot up so I will need to charge more.

 

[lpdsn]

Pantanius have included a story with this years renewal, it is very sad and it nearly reduced me to tears.
Basicly it says we have been loosing money and now you are going to pay about 35% more.
I will be writing a similar letter to all my customers pointing out my yacht insurance has just shot up so I will need to charge more.

Holyhead Marina must've set all the insurance companies back a few years. I was paying about 0.5% of the agreed value, so that means they were working on it being well over 200 years between paying out on that - before you even start thinking about smaller claims and third parties.

 

[cpedw]

Our insurance premium is very slightly Down this year, though I seem to remember a significant increase last year. That's with Nautical Insurance,.

Derek

 

[jordanbasset]

For comparison my Insurance with Y did go up this year (January 2019) to £348, that's for a 2013 Bavaria 33 based in Greece. I shopped around but it was still the least cost, works out at around 0.5% of the value of the boat.
£820 does seem very pricey

 

[Tim Good]

Was with Pants but now with Y. They seem more pragmatic, and less about "computer says no" which is what I got from Pants when crossing from Portugal to Canaries.

 

[LadyInBed]

Just had my renewal quote with Pantaenius for following year- £820.

Also with Pants
2018 £474.04
2017 £436.48
2016 £418.47

33ft Colvic Countess 1984 (35 years old)
Cruising area (Solo day or night)
European rivers and inland waters. Baltic Sea. European coastal waters up to 200 nm off the coast,
Bergen/Wick to Straits of Gibraltar, excluding the Mediterranean.

 

[Mikedefieslife]

Just had my renewal quote with Pantaenius for following year- £820.

Can’t remebrr what it was last year but this seems a lot for a 40 year old Contessa 32 !
I’ve never claimed.

Wondered what others are paying?

I had a quote from Pants for a similar amount. Again on a 40 year old boat. Y Yacht were less than half the price.

Pants also told me they do not offer hull insurance outside of Europe. Odd then that a friend of mine in Germany, who got a quote from their Germans site has it.

 

[awol]

My Contessa 32 is a mere 37 years old, lives on a mooring and my Pantaenius renewal, including new-for-old, is a smidgeon over half of yours. I have always found Pantaenius very easy to deal with - extensions to cruising area, adjustments to standard requirements and, unfortunately, claims for "incidents" have all been handled easily and courteously without any change to my premium. My attempts to find less expensive cover have always foundered on the small print where even Y (with their idiotic 18 hour rule) has failed to meet the same level. I strongly suggest you have a chat and ask them to justify your premium.

However, if you never sail single-handed, race, go outside the 12 mile limit, sail further west than Brest and keep your boat in a marina during the hours of darkness I am sure you can find cheaper.

 

[LadyInBed]

My Contessa 32 is a mere 37 years old, lives on a mooring and my Pantaenius renewal, including new-for-old, is a smidgeon over half of yours.

That's reassuring, as your price sounds as though it might be similar to mine (#11).

 

[Yealm]

My Contessa 32 is a mere 37 years old, lives on a mooring and my Pantaenius renewal, including new-for-old, is a smidgeon over half of yours. I have always found Pantaenius very easy to deal with - extensions to cruising area, adjustments to standard requirements and, unfortunately, claims for "incidents" have all been handled easily and courteously without any change to my premium. My attempts to find less expensive cover have always foundered on the small print where even Y (with their idiotic 18 hour rule) has failed to meet the same level. I strongly suggest you have a chat and ask them to justify your premium.

However, if you never sail single-handed, race, go outside the 12 mile limit, sail further west than Brest and keep your boat in a marina during the hours of darkness I am sure you can find cheaper.

That's interesting !
May i ask what value you're insuring your boat for ?

 

[Sea Devil]

May I suggest you get competative quotes and then cancel with Pantaenius who I found excellent for my circumnavigation have been vastly overpriced for local sailing.

The company I use is https://www.yachtmasterinsurance.co.uk/index.php/our-products/yacht-motorboat-cover and I would expect to pay around 300UKP. The most important thing is value your boat correctly. Like many others I tend to over value and that raises the premium.

 

[awol]

That's interesting !
May i ask what value you're insuring your boat for ?

£33k - it's the value put on it by the surveyor 13 years ago when I bought it and it has never changed.

 

[Sea Devil]

£33k - it's the value put on it by the surveyor 13 years ago when I bought it and it has never changed.

I am in the market for a Contessa 32 or similar and would expect to pay 12-15,000. Made the same mistake as you with my Westerly Ocean 43 which I had insured for 130,000 from when I purchased her 12 years ago but got valuations of 90,000 from several brokers prior to my selling her.
You could halve your insurance premium with a more realistic value but its a bitter pill to swallow!

 

[doug748]

I am in the market for a Contessa 32 or similar and would expect to pay 12-15,000. .....QUOTE]


Unless you are skint and enjoy a project you would do much better to pay £20k for a Contessa 32. I always think Rival 34's are where the value lies in this market but there we are.

I have dug out the relevant Pants info and my boat was - £281 for '17/'18, and - £289 for '18/'19. This is on a valuation of 26k with 1k personal effects.

My valuation has gone up and down over the years - it is always important to think about stuff you add which would be unlikely to be included in any replacement boat if you had to face a total loss.
New winches and sails can add 4 grand at a touch.

 

[awol]

I am in the market for a Contessa 32 or similar and would expect to pay 12-15,000. Made the same mistake as you with my Westerly Ocean 43 which I had insured for 130,000 from when I purchased her 12 years ago but got valuations of 90,000 from several brokers prior to my selling her.
You could halve your insurance premium with a more realistic value but its a bitter pill to swallow!

£12k would hardly cover a mast, rigging and sails if I should ever be so unlucky as to lose them. The market value of CO32s varies very much as to condition and £33k is not unreasonable for a tidy example with newish sails and engine. Prices on the CO32 Assoc. website vary from around £40k to £10k for ~40 year old boats. I guess for the discerning they still attract a premium because they look and sail so well - you can certainly find a lot more boat for similar money but whether it will give so much pleasure is a moot point.