Inner forestay for smaller foresail

[WayneS]

I have seen a number of posts where people have added an inner forestay so that they can make use of a smaller sail in heavy weather.

While I can see there are benefits of having a backup forestay for long distance stuff, is it really necessary to have this for a smaller sail.

I would have thought that it is a simple enough job to remove the genoa from the R/R foil and hoist the smaller sail.

Or am I missing something?

Wayne

 

[jerryat]

Hi!

>> I would have thought that it is a simple enough job to remove the genoa from the R/R foil and hoist the smaller sail <<

I think what you're missing is having to go up on deck, drag down the genoa, bag it, and hoist a smaller jib, just when the weather's beginning to get nasty!!

Much easier to have the smaller jib hanked on and ready to hoist.

 

[damo]

An inner forestay also moves the centre of effort of the foresail nearer to the mast, helping to balance your, presumably, heavily-reefed main or trysail.

 

[Phoenix of Hamble]

In my case, the setup is similar to Jim's, but I have a foresail with a built in halyard.... so I clip it to the spinnaker halyard, hoist it, and then have a purchase system similar at the bottom....

 

[TigaWave]

Nope its definately not simple to remove a genoa if its blowing, even if you have a crew of 6. Seperate stay with bagged jib ready to hoist is much better.

 

[JonJon]

I would like to echo Damo's comment. In force 7 type conditions I have control back with the storm jib and inner forestay. As for dropping the roller reefed genoa etc its not the sort of thing I want to mess about with in these conditions - especially at night or short handed.

 

[Salty John]

You raise an interesting point. If in conditions of rising wind strength you start out with a rollerfurling genoa of, say, 160% and you use that sail until it is down to, say, 130% and then remove it and replace it with a 120% which you then use until it is a working jib, you will have made the sail change at a time when conditions would have not made this impossible. More often, however, people keep wrapping the large genoa as conditions worsen and end up with a badly setting working jib that is further hampered by the fat roll of jib on the stay. If conditions further worsen and you need a proper storm jib you can no longer safely remove the large jib from the stay because you have to unroll it all the way out and fight this massive flapping piece of cloth into submission. An inner forestay gives you the option of getting the big jib off the headstay before it becomes impossible, replacing it with a hanked on working jib with the option to switch down to a storm jib if required. To me, rollerfurling headsails are a convenience in normal conditions but a hazard as the wind pipes up. You really need to be savvy enough to get the big rollerfurling jib off the forestay before the whatsit hits the fan or you can find yourself in difficulties. Even when you have sensibly switched down to a smaller rollerfurling sail, you are still left with no good storm strategy: You still need a means of setting a storm jib, and you still face the prospect of the rollerfurling jib unfurling unintentionally. For the vast majority of people, however, the convenience of rollerfurling far outweighs the fail-dangerous aspect of the system when faced with extreme conditions. All IMHO!

 

[LadyInBed]

As others have said, dropping a large Genoa isn't an option, that's why it is normally on a roller reefer, especially if you sail short / single handed.
Rolling it half in reduces area but pointing ability is [--word removed--].
So the only viable option is an inner stay with a small hanked on sail.
I sailed on a boat just before Christmas that used hanked on foresails, and with a small foresail hoisted the beating angle into a F5 was amazing.
It sold me on an inner forestay.

 

[Abaker]

My experience is similar to earlier comments: in heavy weather roll up the genoa, unbag the hanked-on staysail and hoist it. The yacht balances better than it would with a bit of genoa up at the bow, and it points much better and sails faster. Depending on your sheeting arrangements, you'll probaably need another set of tracks and blocks farther inboard, to lead the staysail sheets to suitably placed stoppers and winches. My arrangement is original equipment, with tracks and blocks on the coachroof, and sheets led back to stoppers beside the halyard stoppers and winches either side of the companionway.

 

[30boat]

I fitted a removeable forestay on wich I hank a small yankee everytime it blows.If it is time to start reefing the genoa then I roll it all away and hoist the smaller sail.This has to benefits ,one it saves wear on my very good Kemp genoa and two the boat becomes very well balanced and pointing better.Having a three quarters fractional rig helps because it needs less foresail changes anyway.I usually don't think about reducing the sail area in the foretriangle before I have the second reef on the main .

 

[ytd]

those of you with removeable inner forestays, how do you get any tension on the inner forestay. Doesn't cranking on the tension just bend the mast forward since there is no backstay to balance the forward load?

 

[TigaWave]

My inner was attached only 20-30cm below the forestay with the rolling gen, and attached to the same chain plate . Storm jib still worked well as the centre of effort was lower, sail flatter etc, but it could have been better I guess with it further aft. It was thoroughly tested in winter storms in Biscay.

 

[Guest]

Interesting comments .....

Far be it for me to differ and in fact I don't ...

I have toyed with the idea of a smaller jib on a "flying-baby-stay" for ages ... in fact I have a small sail ready for it ... just never got round to fitting the eye and backing pad for the tack.

What I find interesting is this comment that many come out with about rolled Gernny and its fat section on the forestay etc. So rolling away the genny and hoisting a small storm jib on inner stay doesn't have the "fat-rolled genny problem" on the forestay ?

In truth the only real advantage of a second stay and jib is that you can roll away main genny without too much personal risk and hoist a sail without having huge amounts of cloth billowing all over the place risking life and limb.

The point about bad shaped rolled genny is easily sorted and to be honest I would rather have a bad shaped roller genny de-powered in strong wind than put myself in danger on the foredeck. Who in their right minds is going to worry about a few crease lines and bad lead on sheets when the weather is that bad ?

I also say that unless you are an ocean crosser / live-aboard or really serious about being out that day ... are you really going to leave port with furling genny out, and a bagged storm job on deck "ready" for that stroing wind forecast ....... what are you doing out ther - if its going to get that bad ? I hope you haven't got your kids and grandma with you ...

Of course all above is IMHO ......

 

[TigaWave]

Re: Interesting comments .....

I think you're right, you shouldn't be out there if you're coastal/channel sailing, trips less than 48hrs...

But since having one and also having rollers fail/jam the ability to quickly and reliably set a foresail is something I would miss if a boat just had the roller.

They are a useful safety back up, mine used existing deck fitting just behind the forestay and worked well.

 

[Guest]

My idea ...

Was to use the existing mooring post and a wire strop to clip tack to.

Using the spinny halyard and a suitably fitted bolt-rope to the sail luff ... a stay should be able to be dispensed with ...

 

[flaming]

Re: My idea ...

You simply won't get enough luff tension without a stay, I've tried it. Going to windward would be nigh on impossible.

 

[Salty John]

Re: Interesting comments .....

I agree that the inefficient shape of a radically furled genoa is not a particularly serious problem. However, I wanted to make the point that, in serious storm conditions, a rolled genoa on the forestay is a hazard. In marina's all over the USA, and probably here too, they insist that rollerfurling sails be removed if heavy weather threatens. This is because they have a tendency towards inadvertant deployment in heavy winds. There were pictures on BBC news a few years ago of a boat being towed in after getting caught in a channel gale. The rollerfurling genoa was in tatters. In fact it looked like they had one of those big brushes from a car wash wrapped around the headstay! It must have been very frightening to see that thing start to unravel as the wind rose. That's why I think an inner forestay for a storm jib is so important, and why I think it is responsible sailing to take the rollerfurling jib off before it becomes impossible to do so. However, I agree that in most coastal cruising scenarios you can find shelter before things get this bad.

 

[Talbot]

a roller reefing system uses a foil, when you pull the sail down, there is nothing connecting it to keep it under control, whereas the secondary stay normally uses piston hanks, so that it is under control all the time while being hoisted. In a strong wind, that one factor could save your life.

 

[Wansworth]

Re: My idea ...

I like the idea of a furling/reefing working jib a lot less cloth and aproper sized sail for general use,Then you hace a genny which is taken in as the wind builds.A deep furled genny looks awful and surely hinders winward advancement!

 

[Phoenix of Hamble]

Re: My idea ...

You can if you have a halyard sewn in like mine!

Although I have also toyed with the idea of getting pistons fitted, and adding a removable stay so that I can hank it on and leave it on deck more easily....