Inner forestay for smaller foresail

Re: Interesting comments .....

Thats a good point John,

But taking it down on a 60'+ mast even in a F4 and lumpy sea with two is a handfull, not a safe option.

The solution I use is that when things are getting that windy the sail is tied up (I wouldn't rely on the rolling up rope to hold it tight) and a sleeve is hoisted over the rolled up sail, and then pulled tight. If you havn't got a sleeve then roll the sheets several times around the sail and then tie them tight and down to the deck, add another rope around the furled sail as high as you can get it.

You can also (if you have a second spin halyard) attach a rope to the halyard hoist it, then wrap this around the furled sail several times, tie it down then tension the halyard. I do this if a boat is left and theres no sock for the furled sail.

The ones that fail are those that have just used the furling rope on a cleat or in a jammer, either the drum fails or the rope breaks, or any sail left flapping gets shredded.

Time to start work now....
 
To reply to JS48 and comment in general, most roller genoas are nothing like 160%, 130-140% would be nearer the mark. A proper modern roller genoa with good rolling gear and a foam luff in the sail will perform surprisingly well but just don't expect the same from a knackered old genoa that was a terrible sail when it was made 20 years ago let alone now! Sure you will not be able to point as high with a rolled genoa but then if the seastate matches the wind strength then you cannot point high anyway as you will be stopped by the waves. So many people blame their roller gear for poor results in strong winds when perhaps they should look also to the genoa, modern cuts are much better (biradial, triradial) as are modern cloths but you cannot expect a cheapo sail let alone one supplied with the boat 'n' years ago to do the job. Be realistic too, if you have a boat that isn't good to windward in benign conditions it isn't going to do better in bad weather whatever the sail setup, it is the hull design you need to change!

We made up a proper storm jib stay for our previous Westerly 33 Ketch and covered some 27,000mls without using it once despite several gales. Wild horses would not get me up front in those conditions setting up the stay and fitting a storm jib in place and if I knew the storm was coming I wouldn't have been out there unless on a really long passage which in reality few people do. We did nonetheless make upwind in F7/8 several times over the years, I even used to think it was fun, but with a heavily rolled genoa and deep reefed main or sometimes only the mizzen.

Our current boat came with a proper removeable inner forestay, backed up with running backstays, that can take either a staysail for heavy weather or a storm jib. We also have separate sheeting and deck tracks in place specifically for this set up. Do we use it - NO! We have a triradial cut roller genoa made from Spectra reinforced Dacron (it is a big highly loaded sail) and with a foam luff insert on a roller gear that winds a bit out of the middle before the top and bottom as well. In our setup the staysail plus 2 reefs of the 3 in the mainsail is good for F7/8 upwind, jolly good because I really don't want to do that anymore, I have the Tee shirt and it is worn out. We can sail quite well thank you with a well rolled genoa and reefed mainsail and yes I know I could set up the storm gear before departure but in reality if I thought I would need it I wouldn't depart!

IMHO if you are planning long distance cruising and ocean crossing then you do need to have a proper system and know how to use it. It is wise to have such a system too as a backup even for more local cruising but to go for planned deckwork changing down roller headsail size or setting up the heavy weather stay and hanking on sails is more likely to be done in the mind (and armchair) than in practice.

All IMHO of course.
 
The reason most furling gennys shred ...

When furled many boats leave the genny with a "tongue" of clew proud of the furl. This is "suicide" to the genny.

A furled genny should always be rolled 2 or 3 times more than just the sail - to wrap sheets round as well. The sheets should then be taken up and no slack allowed.

The number of boats in marinas etc. tied up that have gennys left with slack in the sheets, sail not fully rolled with riding sheet turns is a lot and all subject to "frapping" and shredding. In Tallinn many boats add a short length of rope to further secure the genny.

My genny has been only down for washing and general sprucing up ... staying on the furling gear come hell or high-water ... only damage being that of spreader ends tearing the UV strip.
 
Re: The reason most furling gennys shred ...

Nigel

Quite agree. Ours when left has several rolls of the sheets wrapped around it and the sheets are pulled taught and held both in the self tailers AND on a cleat.

I think too that sometimes the situation arises because there is not enough line on the RR drum so that the line is all out before the sail is completely wrapped and sheets wrapped around as well. This often happens if the sail is put away under load or in strong winds, it rolls very tight and there is not enough line left on the drum for the last bit. If we have been using the sail rolled for strong winds we always let it off and re-roll it quickly under no load when we leave the boat, it is better for the sail and will allow more line for more wraps, although in our case we aren't short of line on the drum anyway.

Robin
 
Re: My idea ...

I added a staysail on a removable inner forestay and find I use it more and more so much that my boat is now a slutter. I also arranged for the staysail to be non overlapping and thus self tacking. It now lives in it's bag, permanently hanked on.
Sailing as cutter, weather helm is non existent, and the boat wil just about sail to windward without autohelm. However I now find I reef the genoa before the main to maintain balance. I did add running backstays to support the mast. Interestingly the inner forestay also prevents the mast bending backwards when the main is reefed.
If planned from the beginning the staysail allows you to use a smaller higher clewed roller genoa, which is not difficult to tack round the inner forestay.
This is all complemented by a lightweight "MPG" set flying from the bow roller.
It's much easier to put up an additional sail in light winds than the other way round.
 
Re: My idea ...

How do you find tacking the genoa with a permanently rigged forestay? Doesn't it get caught when you've got most of it rolled out?
 
Re: My idea ...

Tacking the genoa is slower but this can be advantageous. At least it stops it all flying out to leeward b4 slowly winching it all back in. The self tacking staysail helps a lot. You dont need tracks and complicated sheet runs. Two U bolts in the right place, with one rope running from one U bolt through one pulley on the staysail clew and another pulley on the other U bolt, can be both sheet and rope track. It's too simple for some people to believe. PM me if nec.
 
I made a kind of a Highfield lever that applies more than enough tension to the stay.There are commercial ones on the market.The stay is attached to an extended pin that goes through the original forestay fitting so I have no problems with mast support.
 
Re: My idea ...

We fitted a removable inner stay 2 seasons ago, and modified both storm jib and the No 3 by fitting hanks. We use the No 3 to windward in anything above F4 and it's transformed the boat, making her very easy to handle and well balanced without any loss of speed. A worthwhile modification which we use a lot. We had to have a special chain/deck plate fabricated which takes the load onto the rear bulkhead of the anchor locker

Our genoa is 150% and when setting the inner stay we furl it with an extra couple of gaskets and drop the sheets into the anchor locker. Not easy to do in a blow, and I'm considering fitting an extra pair of cars to the genoa track for this purpose

Anyone who thinks that a sail with a wire luff is the answer hasn't tried setting one, IMO

107_0739%20(Small).JPG
 
My old but perfectly sound and healthy First 35 is fitted with an inner forestay with Wichard wheel tensioner.
As a solosailer most of the time, rolling in the genoa and setting the hanked on no3 on the cutterstay, is a safe and easy way to prepare for stormy weather.
I have running backstays fitted at the same point on the mast as the cutterstay is fastened.

The whole setup is neat and easy, and with the no 3 and full reefed main, she is very well balanced and easy on the helm in rough weather.
 
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