INEOS AC 2-0

[halcyon]

The starboard tack boat (LR) is permitted to alter course, even to force a port-starboard issue - in this case by soaking down as deep as they could

The port tack boat (INEOS) is obligated to keep clear

There are some limitations on the right-of-way boat; they can not alter course in a way that makes it impossible for the keep-clear-boat to keep clear.., but the umpires ruled that INEOS did keep clear, so there was no problem with LR's maneuver, other than that it didn't work - they were just a few meters too far back

Think I noticed we sailed our 500 metre extra again, with close finishes it could become critical, LR could have been half leg back, or may have been that 50 / 100 metres further down the course at the crossing.

Must try and go back over stats and see what the other race distances were.

Brian

 

[Bobc]

Wouldn't it be OK for LR to do that if they could actually get close enough? The trouble was they couldn't.

16.1 When a right-of-way boat changes course, she shall give the other boat room to keep clear.

 

[kingfisher]

If you look at the footage from the helicopter, you can clearly see LR's wake is an arc where they bore down on Ineos. Ian Murray will have seen this from the GPS track, which is why the penalty was cleared immediately. Jimmy knew that he'd lost as was just having a go to see if he could disrupt things.

saiboats dont travel straight lines. What if LR was simply adjusting for a wind shift? Having starboard, doesn’t that mean that LR is free to sail whatever course it wants? And if Ineos just happened to be in the way.... boats are allowed to tack on each other, why are they not allowed to bully a course? If LR hadn’t changed course at the last second, there would have been contact.

clearly LR had the better strategy by being on starboard at the last leg, and IMHO as professional armchair sailor they were robbed a point?

 

[kingfisher]

16.1 When a right-of-way boat changes course, she shall give the other boat room to keep clear.

INEOS has plenty of room to keep clear...by going astern of LR. LR course change was executed several boat lengths away. Of course with the current speeds that is then measured in seconds.

I just don’t see it. I’ve seen the rear camera pictures from LR. I mean, what’s the difference between forcing a boat to go astern and tacking in a duel on top of the competitor and making another boat go into a tack.

I thought SB gives you the right to sail your course? I was so surprised by that umpire call.

 

[kingfisher]

Either way, what just completely blows my mind is that we are discussing port-starboard calls on boats that foil at 40+ knots. Who would have guessed?

 

[bedouin]

16.1 When a right-of-way boat changes course, she shall give the other boat room to keep clear.

Given the situation LR would have needed to change course early enough to INEOS to assess the situation and gybe away - going round the stern would not have been an option. I suppose these boats take a lot longer to gybe than a dinghy so they probably need 20 -30 seconds to be able to respond to a course change

 

[bedouin]

I thought SB gives you the right to sail your course? I was so surprised by that umpire call.

INEOS was clear ahead - by the time LR pretended to alter course that was already apparent. LR put the helm down about a second before they passed astern - not enough time to make a significant difference.

The umpires had all the video and a lot more besides - so no chance of them making a mistake.

 

[kingfisher]

I fully agree that LR was being a dick, but surprised that they are not allowed to (ab)use their SB advantage?

INEOS was clearly aware that LR was bearing down on them.

 

[Bobc]

saiboats dont travel straight lines. What if LR was simply adjusting for a wind shift? Having starboard, doesn’t that mean that LR is free to sail whatever course it wants? And if Ineos just happened to be in the way.... boats are allowed to tack on each other, why are they not allowed to bully a course? If LR hadn’t changed course at the last second, there would have been contact.

clearly LR had the better strategy by being on starboard at the last leg, and IMHO as professional armchair sailor they were robbed a point?

Once you have declared yourself as right-of-way boat, you must hold your course. If you alter course, you lose your rights.

 

[TLouth7]

Once you have declared yourself as right-of-way boat, you must hold your course. If you alter course, you lose your rights.

I'm afraid that is simply untrue. There are situations where the right of way boat cannot sail above its proper course, but it is common for example to push a windward boat up above close hauled on the start line despite establishing right of way on a close reach.

You must give the other boat room/time to keep clear if you do alter course.

 

[RJJ]

I'm afraid that is simply untrue. There are situations where the right of way boat cannot sail above its proper course, but it is common for example to push a windward boat up above close hauled on the start line despite establishing right of way on a close reach.

You must give the other boat room/time to keep clear if you do alter course.

Yep. "Hold your course" doesn't exist.

Port must have the opportunity to respond. So starboard can't alter course too close to port.

My take was that LR's bear away was early enough but that they still weren't on collision course - because they were losing speed all the time they sailed below their VMG course.

 

[Bobc]

Port must have the opportunity to respond. So starboard can't alter course too close to port.

Which is what they did. Ben had decided that he had a cross, LR then performed a bear-away within about 2-3 boat-lengths of Ineos, giving Ben no time or space to react. Had they not done this, it would have been a clear cross.

 

[Bobc]

I'm afraid that is simply untrue. There are situations where the right of way boat cannot sail above its proper course, but it is common for example to push a windward boat up above close hauled on the start line despite establishing right of way on a close reach.

You must give the other boat room/time to keep clear if you do alter course.

You are mixing up a number of different rules here, and some of the rules pre-start are different to post-start.

 

[Bobc]

Article in NZ Herald about this

"That said, Spithill did try to milk it, turning down at the last second making the cross look much closer than perhaps it was ... It seemed to me that safety zone was breached.

"The umpires must have considered that Ineos was clear ahead, and that Luna Rossa altered their course to engineer the breach. Therefore no penalty against Ainslie."

 

[Channel Sailor]

I looked at the last pass on youtube and while the camera was on LR I tried to judge the heading by lining up the bow with the islands in the distance. Compare the early part of that LR course (at the moment Rita looked across judged they would pass ahead). Then notice on LR they could have judged that Rita would pass ahead, because the instruction was issued to go down and repeated several times. I wondered if it had to be repeated because the crew were not expecting it. They could have been sailing to their polars just fine but we’re now being asked head off from optimum. In the next clip from LR you can see the transit between bow and the islands the bow is now quite different. Ben must have looked across and thought what are they playing at turning down just after we have set a course to pass ahead and decided the race was not going to be lost by LR aggressive tactics.

As the two yacht closed further, LR was clearly still on a “down“ instruction (transit with the islands shows this). A collision on this lower course must be obvious to LR, but the instruction to go back up I thought was somewhat late, maybe just for showmanship.

My club race experience interprets this as: the stand on vessel should maintain its course to allow the other vessel to stay out of its way. If I had a possibly faster vessel passing close in front on port with a decreasing changing relative bearing, when why would ask the crew to head downwind a few degrees to obviously increase the risk of a collision and give no time to crossing vessel to get out the way or even time to judge that you had slightly changed course.

Or maybe there was a wind shift to the left on LR that did not affect Rita. Judges would have had to hand the boat speeds, wind speeds and VMG data which would I suspect clearly show if LR dropped down from a probably optimum for the latter part of that course.

 

[st599]

The judging and broadcast tech are shown in this video.

The judges are looking at a CGI top down view. Presumably with a wind overlay from the chase boats.

 

[DJE]

it's getting more common for fast boats to not measure BSP, and to instead use SOG for everything - including the wind calculations, which conventionally use BSP not SOG

but fast boats can not reliably measure BSP so there is no choice - many just omit the BSP sensor

i have no doubt that the AC boats are in this category

I have had the issue on some fast catamarans - at 25-30kts or more.., BSP gets somewhat unreliable.., and because all the wind numbers are calculated from BSP, those are unreliable and can bounce around. This causes problems when the AP is set to steer to wind. At high speeds, it can be better to tell the instruments to use SOG rather than BSP for the wind calculations.

I can see the problems of using paddle wheel speed sensors at very high speeds, but couldn't they use pitot tubes (as used for airspeed measurements in aircraft)?

 

[geoid96]

I can see the problems of using paddle wheel speed sensors at very high speeds, but couldn't they use pitot tubes (as used for airspeed measurements in aircraft)?

Nortek, have developed a doppler velocity sensor for Ineos. This sits inside the foil bulb. See: https://insight.nortekgroup.com/ineos

 

[LONG_KEELER]

The judging and broadcast tech are shown in this video.

The judges are looking at a CGI top down view. Presumably with a wind overlay from the chase boats.

Fantastic. Had no idea the level of

The judging and broadcast tech are shown in this video.

The judges are looking at a CGI top down view. Presumably with a wind overlay from the chase boats.

Thanks. Had no idea the level of sophistication now available to umpires.

The information is also available to commentators . I wondered how they new so much about wind strengths and shifts .

 

[LONG_KEELER]

The judging and broadcast tech are shown in this video.

The judges are looking at a CGI top down view. Presumably with a wind overlay from the chase boats.

Thanks. Had no idea the level of sophistication now available to umpires.

The information is also available to commentators . I wondered how they new so much about wind strengths and shifts .