In what circumstances should sail give way to power ?

[DAKA]

I posted on schultleberks yesterday about a Yacht that had hit me while I was mored.

Only a few posts agreed I was the stand on vessel, they tended to be my mobo friends who came to my rescue ( thanks /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif).

I was amazed that the overwhelming impression given on schultelberks was that there are no circumstances when sail should give way to power.

Before I have a serious attempt to educate the sail forum please can I have some help as a list of circumstances where a sailing Yacht should not stand on or alter course into a power craft.

I'll start with a Yacht under power with no sails hoisted !

 

[Lakesailor]

But that's not a sailing yacht. It's a motor boat. Lots of them on Windymere!

 

[SilverTT]

Typical attitude of a yottie.

Even with sails up if they have their motor on then they are under power not sailing.

 

[DAKA]

They still hold intercept courses on port side, we have to treat them as if they are sailing.



EDIT


Please can we not turn this into an argument.
Lets just list times when skippers of yachts shouldnt ram stinkers.


Such as a stinker at anchor..........even if the tide wind is swinging him !

 

[cliff]

Trawler actually trawling
Dive support vessel (with diving operations in progress)
Hydrographic survey vessel (trailing sonar array)
VLCCs and their ilk - prudent to give way
Ships of the Grey Funnel line (sometimes)
Mobos and other assorted stink pots - never /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
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"Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity"
sailroom <span style="color:red">The place to auction your previously loved boatie bits</span>

 

[cliff]

[ QUOTE ]
Even with sails up if they have their motor on then they are under power not sailing.

[/ QUOTE ]Not true. I used to sail with the motor running to recharge the batteries to keep the fridges/freezer working (and the ice maker for the ice for the G&Ts) and have some reserve left in the batteries to run the invertor for SHMO's hair drier not to mention the TV etc in the evening.
--------------------

"Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity"
sailroom <span style="color:red">The place to auction your previously loved boatie bits</span>

 

[Bilgediver]

Post from Skuttlbuks

Was last week end too windy for Yachts to see where they are going ?

I was involved with a near miss with a cruiser and a collision by a dinghy ( both on my Port side )

I got close enough to both of the skippers to see their faces and both looked petrified.

It wasnt that windy but there was some spray, does the salt get in your eyes and blind you or were these just inexperienced ?


Im not really mad , we can all make mistakes, I want to understand what is going on and what to look out for in the future, these two must have been inexperienced .
Perhaps licences should be required before sails can be used in a force 4 and above .

.....................................................................................

You were Moored.....did you have your black ball up?????

How do you expect a yachty to give way to you if you don t tell him you are moored /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[andy_wilson]

A yacht under power, sails up or down, is a power driven vessel.

Sailing vessels should give way to the following power driven vessels:-

Fishing vessels with gear (and daymark / lights) deployed.
Vessel constrained by it's draught.
Vessel engaged in other operations showing the appropriate marks or lights eg minesweeper, dredger, dive boat.
When the give way vessel has not given way and the risk of a collision exists.

 

[pheran]

I'm a bit confused. Surely you can't be the give-way vessel if you are moored/anchored. How are you expected to manoever? I would have thought the rules in these circumstances refered to two vessels under way (but am happy to be corrected!)

 

[Major Catastrophe]

DAKA, I have full sympathy for you.

I posted this on the 21st May:

<span style="color:blue"> "I think yots should be fitted with indicators and brake lights.

Yesterday I was observing the 5 knot speed limit when a yot came thundering up on my stern quarter, he tacks and comes straight at me, but has to course change to miss me. I am grateful that he managed to scream some helpful instructions to me as he passsed my bow, which included some facts , all erroneous, about my parent's marital status.

I just smiled and waved cheerily.

Another one told me to 'have a care' when he nearly ran me down. I fully admit I was not keeping a lookout and was actually making a cup of tea at the time.

I am now concerned that the anchor ball I was displaying may have caught the wind and made me swing on my anchor." </span>

Yotties call us all sorts of names, but whereas I always display a ball when at anchor, I very rarely see a yacht showing a cone when motoring with sails. They should get their house in order before chucking stones at ours.

 

[tangofour]

If you were moored than it's his fault as long as you had a ball up. ( not the b***s up that ensued)

ps. I'm a yottie

 

[DAKA]

Yes I remember that now.

I truly believe that they are so focused on power boats must give way they totally forget when they are not sailing and also dont recognise a mobo at anchor/moored as an object that isnt going to move for them.


rule 10c ( I think ) mentions something about vessels restricted by depth/manoeuvrability in narrow channels but they dont seam to want take any notice of it

 

[DAKA]

[ QUOTE ]
If you were moored than it's his fault as long as you had a ball up.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have to admit I Had not got round to hanging a ball up.

1 st I tied to the boat on the pontoon(under instruction from the HM)
2nt I put springers on
3 rd I turned the engine off
4th I plugged into 240v
5th I booked the restaurant
6th I put shor lines on
7 th I opened a beer
8th I helped the Yacht untangle from my boat, the wind held him against my port side, sail stuck on my guard rails.

I must admit , it has never occurred to me to use a ball in Marinas /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

 

[Talbot]

The two main times when sail has to give way to power:

when the power vessel is constrained by its draft.

when the sailing vessel is overtaking the power vessel.

The later rule is invariably forgotten by a lot of raggies

 

[fireball]

[ QUOTE ]
rule 10c ( I think ) mentions something about vessels restricted by depth/manoeuvrability in narrow channels but they dont seam to want take any notice of it

[/ QUOTE ]
Ah - got you there ... how much do you draw? 1m? ... double that for some yachts - so you're out "restricted by depth" there ... and for manoeuverability ... well - I hope you can turn in your own length - most yachts can't ... so thats that one out too! ...

I'm afraid that you'll just have to accept that with a boat the size and power of yours, you must be too rich to be clever enough to understand the colregs so you'll be best off just giving way in all circumstances ... even when you can't.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Overtaking. We were idling out of Andraitx harbour in Majorca a few days ago when a large yacht under sail overtook us. I got a mouthful of abuse from the helmsman about getting out of his way. Seems ignorance of the Col Regs is no bar to helming a superyacht

 

[rickp]

[ QUOTE ]
well - I hope you can turn in your own length - most yachts can't

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't turn in my own length, being single engined. Best not to make assumptions....

Rick

 

[thefatlady]

When the yacht is the overtaking vessel.

Yes, it can happen. On my Yachtmaster course, doing blind navigation, this happened and the instructor had some loud words to say to the yottie. Rule 13, I believe.

 

[DAKA]

Just because both boats can go around at any time does not mean 10c does not apply (might not be 10c long time since I read )





[ QUOTE ]
[you'll be best off just giving way in all circumstances ... even when you can't.

[/ QUOTE ]

/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[benjenbav]

Daka, old chap, we're the embodiment of evil.

We can:

* Drive our boats directly into the wind

* Proceed to our destination on a calm day

* Disturb the water with our propellors

Do like me and think yourself lucky that a wise authority has created such benign rules as "power gives way to sail" rather than treating us as we surely deserve.

Let's have no more of this "I was moored" excuse. Frankly, you would have been just as wrong if you had been on the hard with the engines out of the boat.