Imitation Firearms

[johnabbott893]

Is it legal to have a Realistic Imitation Firearm onboard in the UK?

I own an old Airsoft BB Pistol, which is now classed as a Realistic Imitation Firearm. It is legal for me to own the item and use it in my own home where I use it to scare rats (it has no lethal potential otherwise it would be a firearm). However, it is illegal to have a Realistic Imitation Firearm in a Public Place without a reasonable excuse. I would like to stash the toy gun away on the boat as I set off from the UK. Is my boat classed as a ‘Public Place’ in the same way as a car on the highway? If so, is it a reasonable excuse that I might wish to use it for entertainment in mid Atlantic and to encourage any overeager fishermen to stick to fishing?

I have dealt with a lot of local fishermen in the Southern Red Sea, mainly on the outlying coral atolls from the Saudi Arabian coast, but not the Gulf of Aden. All these fishermen are dirt poor, incredibly friendly and would rob you if they got the chance. If they think there is any possibility of them getting hurt or caught they will remain super friendly and trade fish with you. If they catch a glimpse of a gun they stick to fishing. This is a ploy I used for several years.

One can argue the merits and risks of such a tactic but I don’t really want to go there. I am interested in views on the UK law.

 

[theguerns]

imitation firearms

The problem is in having a firearm of any sort imitation or real on board. If a member of the public for any reason saw the gun and reported it to the police you could be faced with an armed response unit. In the worse case the police may see you as a threat fire on you. As to the law having the gun onboard in a secure unit isnt against the law. It is more the caase of convincing the authorities as to its potential use. This is where you might come unstuck. As to threatening fishermen please give this some more thought as you just might threaten a pontential pirate in which case you are going to DIE. I am an ex Royal Marine and write on several forums giving advice on security. I ALWAYS tell people that to carry guns on board is dangerous more so to the people onboard as accidents can happen and the law in most countries are that you have to give up firearms when at anchor or in port which is the time you are at most risk. Hope this helps

 

[johnabbott893]

The problem is in having a firearm of any sort imitation or real on board. If a member of the public for any reason saw the gun and reported it to the police you could be faced with an armed response unit. In the worse case the police may see you as a threat fire on you. As to the law having the gun onboard in a secure unit isnt against the law. It is more the caase of convincing the authorities as to its potential use.

Yes, I would need to keep it tucked away with my waterpistol to stop Jo Public getting alarmed. I am more concerned about getting searched by the UKBA cowboys. Is using it for entertainment in mid Atlantic a reasonable excuse for the authorities?

As to threatening fishermen please give this some more thought as you just might threaten a pontential pirate in which case you are going to DIE. I am an ex Royal Marine and write on several forums giving advice on security. I ALWAYS tell people that to carry guns on board is dangerous more so to the people onboard as accidents can happen and the law in most countries are that you have to give up firearms when at anchor or in port which is the time you are at most risk. Hope this helps

Thank you. I didn't want to go there. I would never threaten a fisherman with a toy gun and the only accident I am likely to have is slipping over on the round plastic pellets.

 

[EBunting]

Guns on board

Just writing about this actually.

It's a bit of a grey area, but in fact there's no requirement to have a licence for carrying any kind of gun on board if your intention is to sail away/go cruising outside territorial waters sometime in the provably foreseeable future. Nor do you have to have a gun cabinet or any special stowage.

The chap who was recently jailed had various weapons on board and no immediate cruising plans. I understand these weapons had been aboard for around a dozen years and were discovered after he was rummaged in harbour by the UK Border Agency - presumably after a tip off.

The only requirement is a special permit issued by police for transporting a firearm from A to B. That said, Hampshire Constabulary hasn't issued one of those for a boat for over 30 years so it's a fair conclusion that those who arm themselves for cruising aren't bothering with this, and the police are possibly turning a bit of a blind eye.

Carrying a gun routinely on board a boat coasting in the UK would be unwise, though. From a legal POV, there is a mandatory 5 yr jail sentence for possession of an unlicensed firearm. For that reason I think even the discovery of an imitation gun could ruin your weekend...

Elaine, YW

 

[Major Catastrophe]

Even an imitation firearm can get you into trouble.

This is what happened to one of my customers after he rang the police about some phone calls he had got.

Incidentally, I also have a full sized Lara Croft, but she is hidden in my bathroom out of plod's way.

 

[Clarky]

Is it legal to have a Realistic Imitation Firearm onboard in the UK?

I own an old Airsoft BB Pistol, which is now classed as a Realistic Imitation Firearm. It is legal for me to own the item and use it in my own home where I use it to scare rats (it has no lethal potential otherwise it would be a firearm). However, it is illegal to have a Realistic Imitation Firearm in a Public Place without a reasonable excuse. I would like to stash the toy gun away on the boat as I set off from the UK. Is my boat classed as a ‘Public Place’ in the same way as a car on the highway? If so, is it a reasonable excuse that I might wish to use it for entertainment in mid Atlantic and to encourage any overeager fishermen to stick to fishing?

I have dealt with a lot of local fishermen in the Southern Red Sea, mainly on the outlying coral atolls from the Saudi Arabian coast, but not the Gulf of Aden. All these fishermen are dirt poor, incredibly friendly and would rob you if they got the chance. If they think there is any possibility of them getting hurt or caught they will remain super friendly and trade fish with you. If they catch a glimpse of a gun they stick to fishing. This is a ploy I used for several years.

One can argue the merits and risks of such a tactic but I don’t really want to go there. I am interested in views on the UK law.

You can keep a BB air soft on board without contravening any UK laws.You can have an air pistol or rifle on board without contravening any UK laws to,provided kids dont get hold of it.What you do with it, is when you might contravene UK law,so if its down below and doesnt come out then there is no problem.
You can buy BB guns,or any imitation firearm , and air weapons with no restrictions provided you are over 18.
Dont think the authorities would be over interested unless you were of interest to them for some other reason.
It would be advisable to cover it taking it to the boat and obviously not have it stuck down your trousers !.

 

[Clarky]

Just writing about this actually.

It's a bit of a grey area, but in fact there's no requirement to have a licence for carrying any kind of gun on board if your intention is to sail away/go cruising outside territorial waters sometime in the provably foreseeable future. Nor do you have to have a gun cabinet or any special stowage.

The chap who was recently jailed had various weapons on board and no immediate cruising plans. I understand these weapons had been aboard for around a dozen years and were discovered after he was rummaged in harbour by the UK Border Agency - presumably after a tip off.

The only requirement is a special permit issued by police for transporting a firearm from A to B. That said, Hampshire Constabulary hasn't issued one of those for a boat for over 30 years so it's a fair conclusion that those who arm themselves for cruising aren't bothering with this, and the police are possibly turning a bit of a blind eye.

Carrying a gun routinely on board a boat coasting in the UK would be unwise, though. From a legal POV, there is a mandatory 5 yr jail sentence for possession of an unlicensed firearm. For that reason I think even the discovery of an imitation gun could ruin your weekend...

Elaine, YW

Elaine,
Your post is incorrect and irresponsible,the chap who was arrested had a S.1 Firearm(sawn off shotgun) on board his boat.Possession of a S.1 Firearm is a serious offence for which he was jailed.
It is a serious offence to have any firearm without the appropriate licence if it requires one,the POLICE DO NOT TURN A BLIND EYE TO ANY FIREARMS OFFENCES.You cannot buy or possess any firearm without a licence,if you need one for whatever reason the best course of action is to apply for one.
BB guns and air weapons(under a certain power) dont require licences.

 

[mandlmaunder]

Things have changed

If you carry any form of fire arm on a boat and intend to scare a potential attacker then you had better be prepared for an armed person who does not hold human life (especially yours) in high regard and will kill you with their own weapon of choice rather than discuss just taking some of your possessions.

If you show resistance to an armed aggressor you have upped the anti.

This is a hot topic with many cruisers we have met and the vast majority don't, for fear of getting into more trouble by having a gun than not.

If you want to use non lethal force have a good quality high value local spirit in your drink locker as that is usually the first place 'pirates' head for and heavily dose it with strong fast acting sleeping pills.
When they pass out it is up to you what you do with them.

Mark

 

[cliffordpope]

If you use an imitation gun in such a manner that someone reasonably mistakes it for a real gun, then you become subject to the same rules and penalties as if it were real.

Walking into a bank waving a realistic 6-shooter and demanding the money is still armed robbery. If someone genuinely mistook the gun and thought his life was in danger he could use reasonable force in self-defence. So he might in certain circumstances legally kill you.

 

[Woodlouse]

The point has been missed here I feel.

In UK law there is nothing to stop you from carrying a BB gun aboard your boat however real it looks. If anyone asks what it's for then just say you like shooting tin cans, or some other inanimate target. Just don't go waving the thing about in a post office and you'll have no problems.

You must however realise the differences in the law in other countries. In the USA for example, replica and BB guns are required to have an orange tip to the barrel. Most Airsofters over there however paint this out, but doing so could land you in trouble.

 

[Searush]

Why don't people read the OP?

I have a collection of air pistols, some of which are extremely realistic replicas of real weapons. No licence is needed & I can carry them anywhere, but I am expected to keep them in a suitable container. I use a couple of foam lined briefcases. I can keep them on the boat, but I must not use them in a public place. I suspect that would include all harbours, beaches & any anchorage where there are other boats. If alone in an anchorage, there is no-one to complain, so I guess I might get away with it.

My suggestion is to have a target holder & some paper targets to offer as reasons for having them aboard. It might also be worth telling the UKBA they are there if they happen to board you.

Once offshore it is no longer a problem, but I would still be inclined to declare it to local officials when you arrive in a new country. It might also be worth researching the law in each country you plan to visit. It shouldn't be too hard with Google.

 

[Slow_boat]

Yes, of course you can have a softair pistol on your boat. The general rule for air pistols is that they must be in a gun cover if carried in the street or public place. i.e. it's a bad idea to have them in your hand whilst walking down the road, for instances. There really are circumstances where you could be shot and that probably means killed. And it would be your own damn fool fault.

But the answer to the original enquiry is yes, quite legal.

 

[Jenaline IV]

The only law I think you may fall foul of is the whole firing an air weapon within X (cant remember the exact distance but somewhere around 25) feet of, over or into a public right of way. The law is intended at safeguarding people walking on legal footpaths or along the road.

I can however see public right of way being interpreted to extend to the water or at least the authorities having a go and ruining your weekend just to put others of doing the same.

Personally if you are using it responsibily I dont see the harm but recent events may convince you to keep it at home and give those pesky moggies hell ;-)

 

[25931]

The only law I think you may fall foul of is the whole firing an air weapon within X (cant remember the exact distance but somewhere around 25) feet of, over or into a public right of way. The law is intended at safeguarding people walking on legal footpaths or along the road.

I can however see public right of way being interpreted to extend to the water or at least the authorities having a go and ruining your weekend just to put others of doing the same.

Personally if you are using it responsibily I dont see the harm but recent events may convince you to keep it at home and give those pesky moggies hell ;-)

Giving moggies hell with an air gun is certainly illegal and would be condemned by any decent human being.
Jim

 

[snooks]

When I did this shoot of a military style RIB and a couple of blokes with replica weapons, we had a police unit in attendance, and the police had to inspect the weapons before they could be revealed in public and on the water.

Although it was coordinated with the police and planned weeks in advance, they said we should have notified them before the RIB left it's home port, even though the "weapons" were hidden from view, just in case they were stopped en route.

 

[Major Catastrophe]

When I did this shoot of a military style RIB and a couple of blokes with replica weapons, we had a police unit in attendance, and the police had to inspect the weapons before they could be revealed in public and on the water.

Although it was coordinated with the police and planned weeks in advance, they said we should have notified them before the RIB left it's home port, even though the "weapons" were hidden from view, just in case they were stopped en route.

A police woman tried to arrest me in Stafford for having a pistol in a holster. I was was just popping into a newsagent for a newspaper.

Yes, it was a real pistol, but it was unloaded, I was in army uniform and I had just stepped out of an army landrover which had three soldiers with rifles inside.

I told her to radio her sergeant and if she still wanted to discuss it further she could have a chat once I'd got my paper.

When I emerged she was studiously studying the part of the windscreen where a tax disc would normally be.

Not a word was said and we drove off.

[LAMP SWINGING] I once took part in a huge home defence exercise in the North West of England, playing the enemy forces. An entire battalion in civvies, driving civvy vehicles and armed to the teeth breaking into military and designated civvy establishments. Police played along - they had to be slapped down a couple of times as they were reporting our movements to the home forces, which was messing up the 'pink' (Exercise plans are always printed on pink paper). We would use police huts at motorway services to do our admin and weapons checks.

We ran some 'events' at Manchester airport, but were denied the plan to have hostage situation in terminal 2!! In the end we had to do it in an empty hanger on the far side of the airport.

Great fun and the boys really enjoyed breaking into buildings and 'secure' compounds without fear of real arrest. [/LAMP SWINGING]

The main thing was, the public was hardly aware that there was a major military exercise taking place in their midst, a lot different to Germany where battles took place in villages - with tanks as well!!

 

[Impaler]

Many years ago in a far off land someone waved a replica pistol at us, we survived, he didn't. Just be careful what you do, especially these days. Remember the poor bloke shot whilst carrying atable leg. If you don't need it. don't carry it.

 

[Searush]

Major,
I was once invited as a civilian to take part in a TA exercise as were my family & the family of the Officer that invited us. I was give a service revolver loaded with blanks & told to get my "refugees" across the boarder.

As it happened, we were spotted by a mutual aquaintance who put 2 & 2 together & arrested us. Whilst being escorted off to HQ under armed guard, I had the great pleasure of "shooting" the armed guard & taking our aquaintance prisoner.

War games are clearly great fun, but, even so people still get seriously injured & killed by accident.

 

[Kukri]

My employers' ships don't carry firearms but we have twice had cattle prods confiscated from Panamanian and Hong Kong flag bulk carriers by HMRC during calls at UK ports on the grounds that they are apparently "instruments of torture".

Draw your own conclusion as to what HMRC are likely to do to a yachtsman carrying a firearm.

 

[rtchina]

And Flare Pistols? Are they legal on a British registered yacht far away from the UK?