Juan Twothree
Well-Known Member
The RNLI only "took over" because they were asked to do so by a majority of the Cowes Lifeboat trustees.
Full story here:
http://www.iwcp.co.uk/news/rnli-to-take-on-cowes-lifeboat-20208.aspx
If I were an RNLI donor I would not be happy.
- Thread starter Sybarite
- Start date
The RNLI only "took over" because they were asked to do so by a majority of the Cowes Lifeboat trustees.
Full story here:
http://www.iwcp.co.uk/news/rnli-to-take-on-cowes-lifeboat-20208.aspx
jordanbasset
Well-Known Member
You will not get anywhere by being reasonable and stating facts, from the report -
"AFTER 20 years with an independent lifeboat, the service in Cowes will now be taken over by the RNLI after a unanimous vote by members.....
Coxwain Matt Chessell, speaking on behalf of several crew members, said the RNLI would provide better resources, equipment and support, as well as a more reliable service.
He added: “The RNLI get the best of everything, while we have to make do. If I get injured, this organisation can’t support me, and I have a family to think about. We put our lives at risk and we need the proper gear. This is a fantastic opportunity — lets take it."
Do not know where Pilot Wolf got the "at the time the RNLI 'took over' there was some very bad ill feelings." from
Sybarite
Well-Known Member
Apparently the local chairman and one or two others were against the idea but bowed to the will of the majority.
jordanbasset
Well-Known Member
As every good chairman and members should, they listened to the debate, the very strong views of the crews and decided to vote unanimously to move to the RNLI, as one member put it "“I couldn’t in all conscience go against the wishes of the crew, who risk their lives, after all.”
Not to decry independent life boats, they also do a great job, but it does show those at the sharp end want the best equipment, who wouldn't.
maxi77
Well-Known Member
A little thought for the OP did he ever check that the prices quoted for the two boats he attempted to compare were actually arrived at by the same methods, for example were they based on the same year, were they based on simply the build costs of one boat or the total programme cost divided by the total boats, and were they book value or actual costs, all of these can make quite dramatic differences to how prices look.
PilotWolf
Well-Known Member
At the time I was a full time paid member of staff with the RNLI - internal knowledge. There are several news stories that show the displeasure (including the linked one) that show independent crew were unhappy about the take over.
PW.
King Penguin
Well-Known Member
Many people tried to explain his comparisons were 'apples and pears' but he and others preferred to ignore these posts and continued to stir up anti RNLI sentiments......
Keen_Ed
Well-Known Member
From my reading of the linked story, it looks like the ill feeling was the result of communication matters within the CILB organisation, not originating from the RNLI.
CLIB now have a shiny new rib, in a new boathouse much closer to the mouth of the Medina
jordanbasset
Well-Known Member
Another one making the classic mistake of introducing facts to the debate
Sybarite
Well-Known Member
In your opinion they were apples and pears comparisons but as the French save lives with their boats which cost a fraction of the price of the nearest equivalents in the RNLI I believe a ball-park comparison is valid.
Anyway you accused me me of something else which I challenged you on but you didn't or couldn't back up your accusations.
Therefore we can treat your criticisms with the merit they deserve.
maxi77
Well-Known Member
But as you have been asked and have decided not to answer, how do we deal with the carriage launch situation the French way which is to ignore it and just wait for the tide, or pay to get 24/7 cover. Also are the costings on the same basis the variety of ways of expressing cost can make pretty dramatic differences. You still fail to give us a true comparison to support you assertion and thus your argument is invalid.
Bru
Well-Known Member
611 posts in and we're right back to where we started!
I'd be the first to agree that no organisation is beyond reproach or criticism and indeed it would be a miracle if an organisation the size of the RNLI did not have room for improvement but ...
The crux of the initial argument is that you can't make such a naive and ill-judged comparison as Sybarite persists in making
SNMS simply do not have a vessel in their fleet which can be used as a basis of a valid comparison with the Shannon class
You could raise an argument that the RNLI does not need those capabilities, you could perhaps propose a lower cost solution that delivered those capabilities but you simply cannot criticise the cost of Shannon on the grounds that the SNMS can deliver a totally differernt boat which does not meet the requirement that Shannon was designed to meet for a third of the cost!
The comparison was invalid 600 odd posts ago and continues to be invalid no matter how virtual much hot air we've managed to generate along the way!
I'd be the first to agree that no organisation is beyond reproach or criticism and indeed it would be a miracle if an organisation the size of the RNLI did not have room for improvement but ...
The crux of the initial argument is that you can't make such a naive and ill-judged comparison as Sybarite persists in making
SNMS simply do not have a vessel in their fleet which can be used as a basis of a valid comparison with the Shannon class
You could raise an argument that the RNLI does not need those capabilities, you could perhaps propose a lower cost solution that delivered those capabilities but you simply cannot criticise the cost of Shannon on the grounds that the SNMS can deliver a totally differernt boat which does not meet the requirement that Shannon was designed to meet for a third of the cost!
The comparison was invalid 600 odd posts ago and continues to be invalid no matter how virtual much hot air we've managed to generate along the way!
Sybarite
Well-Known Member
What I said 100's of posts back was that the French approach shallow water rescues another way. With large RIB's carriage-launched behind tractors. They are probably more focused on saving the crew than the vessel.
Once the Shannon is out of shallow waters - and some are intended to be kept afloat - it is to be compared with the French equivalents. It is an excellent boat, excellent handling characteristics but then so are the new French boats at one half to one third the price.
And they may only use springs instead of shock absorbers in their seats.
Sybarite
Well-Known Member
Same basis of costing ? I don't think any accounting difference is going to justify why one boat is twice as much as another. Accounting principles are pretty standard now from one country to another.
How much does the SIMS cost? Does every crew member have to have access to it? Would the provision of thermal imaging cameras not be more useful?
Bru
Well-Known Member
And what was pointed out hundreds of posts back is that at many of the station locations for which the Shannon is designed there is nowhere suitable to keep a boat afloat at all states of the tide (or even at any state of the tide!)
A large RIB is not an All Weather Lifeboat so how do the French deal with a rquirement for a beach launched AWB? Answer, as far as I can see, is that they don't
There isn't a vessel in the French fleet that can meet the requirement that Shannon is designed to meet. There is therefore no basis for comparison
maxi77
Well-Known Member
Once again you miss the whole point of carriage lauched boats. Yes by virtue of the carriage launch and recover they need good performance in shallow water, but they are unlike the RIBs they are long range all weather boats. The job they do cannot be done by RIBs. The reason for having them is for use in places where the launch station dries out so they can be launched off the beach when the tide is out. From the stations I have seen the French solution is to wait for the tide. As I said before we do have to compare like with like
chanelyacht
Well-Known Member
And the SNSM does not make a commitment regarding time to scene that the RNLI does, which was the reason behind them moving to an all 25knot fleet in the first place.
Where we have lifeboat stations in quiet areas to maintain that time to casualty commitment, the French simply don't have a boat there.
Where we have lifeboat stations in quiet areas to maintain that time to casualty commitment, the French simply don't have a boat there.
King Penguin
Well-Known Member
Hi there,
Number one - I refer you to the answer I (and others) have given before.
Number two - I didn't accuse you of anything, I merely pointed out and commented on your vast and wide-ranging post history, which is available for everyone to see.
I really don't want to carry on with this, I have better things to do and surely you have too...........
May I suggest you turn your PC off for a bit, have a glass of some of your 'luxurious and pleasurable' French wine and forget about it.......
Sybarite
Well-Known Member
Sybarite
Well-Known Member
As the French fleet has the same speed criteria ie 25knts I don't know how you can say that. As for getting underway the French target is 15 minutes and the RNLI 10 minutes. Do the RNLI respect this objective or not? Judging by the video of the launch of the Shannon at Llandudno it certainly doesn't in that case. On the other hand if it's lives in shallow water that are to be saved the tractor launching of the RIB looked much faster. I posted the videos of both.
Now you are not being logical; you yourself said that the UK has a much longer coastline yet the SNSM has a much larger fleet: 600 boats compared with 440.