I am a simple soul

[claymore]

Isn't it strange how the Inland Revenue are happy to fine you for a few bob if you don't get your tax return in on time and yet we have a black economy that has to be bigger that any black hole in space. When the authorities all turn a blind eye to the fact that 30 odd foreign national illegal immigrants can all live in a one-roomed flat in Morecambe and when 19 of them drown, the best we can come up with is "possible manslaughter charges."
Is it me or do you ever think that we sometimes miss the bigger picture?
And don't you just love it when some local says "Oh its been an accident waiting to happen"

<hr width=100% size=1>regards
Claymore
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[StugeronSteve]

Re:Beggars belief. nm.

nm.

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[TheBoatman]

Breaking News!

The government has just announced that due to the seriousness of the recent tragic events surounding the Morcombe Bay incident, they are going to set up a special unit to deal with this type of thing.

The new unit will be known as the Chinese Outworkers Cockle-Uplifters Protection Squad or COC-UPS.

Further the minister announced that there will be a full enquiry once they had found someone to blame and at that point he will set the guide lines for the enquiry!

Need I say more?


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[SteveA]

Re: Breaking News!

I don't find it at all funny to make light of this tragedy.

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[Jools_of_Top_Cat]

Re: Breaking News!

He was not making light of the tragedy, he was, at least how I read it taking the p@ss out of the official stance to it.

I don't think anyone will laugh at the deaths of 19 people.

Lighten up.

<hr width=100% size=1>Julian

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.topcatsail.co.uk>Top Cat Homepage</A>

 

[claymore]

Re: Breaking News!

I don't think anyone is making light of it. I live in the area - this has been happening for some time and no-one has done a sodding thing to prevent it. Everyone knows that its labour on the lump and therefore is fuelling the black economy. I think what I was saying is that its a shame when it takes a tragedy to bring about legislation - but then we are used to that aren't we - Cairngorms, Lyme Bay etc etc.
The other thing I was saying is that the Government bugger about nailing tax payers who are late but don't go anywhere near the real criminals because they all live in the "too difficult" box.

<hr width=100% size=1>regards
Claymore
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[Twister_Ken]

Re: Breaking News!

Certainly the Commons today resounded to the sound of slamming stable doors.

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.writeforweb.com/twister1>Let's Twist Again</A>

 

[BlueSkyNick]

Re: Breaking News!

You're right Jools, Boatman is taking the p!ss out of the official stance to it, fair enough.

However, if we go back to Claymore's original point, the tragedy is more than the deaths of 19 human beings - its that they shouldn't have been put into that situation in the first place. What's more, there are several thousand others like them, scattered around the UK.

Some are working in more dangerous, or inhumane conditions than others, but they are all being exploited - that's the real tragedy.

On top of that, their masters are breaking the law in a big way and the rest of are getting screwed for every last penny we apparently owe to HM Treasury.

In summary, there are far greater underlying issues on this subject which historically have not been addressed, and nor will they through a few manslaugter charges.

I usually try to avoid political posts on the forum (twice I've said that in a week!) so now its time for me to shut up and lighten up, too.


<hr width=100% size=1>Nostalgia is not what it used to be.

 

[SteveA]

Re: Breaking News!

Accepted - if the point was that this type of exploitation needs to be stopped I am whole heartedly behind it.
I too sail in this area and have seen these guys out everyday (on the North coast) and would relate to the" we knew it would happen sometime" but they were not doing anything illegal! - 'regulation' is something that is usually shied away from but I believe in this case there should be a tightening up of, at least, the Health and Safety monitoring.

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[Bergman]

Absolutely right

Its worth remembering this is not the first such tragedy.

Some time ago a large number of Chinese people died in the back of a refrigerated lorry somewhere between Holland and England.

Why

Because there is a substantial criminal industry in transporting people from China and South Asia into the UK. The victims of this tragedy will probably have paid some £5000 each for the privilege of cockling in Morecambe Bay.

How can this illegal industry be sustained?

Because this government lacks the backbone to stop it.

Because there is a high probability that even if caught such immigrants will be allowed to stay.

Because even if an attempt is made to deport, such an action will be reversed in the appeal court.

Because someone pretends to believe that all these people would have been subject to torture etc had they remained in China.

Because its easier to invent innocent sounding terms such as "asylum seeker" rather than talk about "illegal immigrants" and so have to deal with the situation.

Because we have a government that tries to rationalise a "middle way" between right and wrong.

So 19 people drown and we have wringing of hands and gnashing of teeth and maybe someone will get 5 years for manslaughter (reduced on appeal and then reversed by Euro Court and massive compensation paid).

And everything carries on as normal until the next time.

Want to say more but so angry words fail me



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[Sailfree]

This problem is in the too difficult box as the UK cannot quickly differentiate between those that have a right to be here and those that do not. But if someone suggests the solution that many other countries adopt and consider normal namely an identity card 1000s will be up in arms claiming invasion of civil liberties meanwhile people live and work illegally in the UK and are exploited ( many in the sex trade). The most important thing is not to do anything that involves upseting voters but set up a new government security service. We will be forced to at least introduce passports with biometric identifiers by other counties that have noticed they are in the 21st century if we wish to continue to be able to travel freely.

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[TheBoatman]

Re: Breaking News!

Jools
You answered Steve for me!

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[Captain_Chaos]

Re: Breaking News!

Claymore and others responding to the original post are bang on in their assessment that the problem is ignored because it is difficult to solve.
The customs & excise would rather nail smugglers at dover bringing in cheap booze and fags,
the Revenue produce incomprehensible guidlines on completing tax returns and monster people that are late submitting returns,
ditto with businesses paying their paye ( but if a business never pays its paye they can get away with it foir years)
The Plod are basically a blunt instrument that has now developed a passion for chasing motorists and anyone else that will not give them a hard time,
The government / local authorities are turning the country into a nanny state. I see in todays newspaper that the local authority has banned the use of hanging baskets in bury St Edmunds. Even though they have won the Britain in bloom competition and no hanging basket has ever fallen off a lampost, the authority is worried about what may happen if it did! They are now trying to get indemnities from the suppliers of the lamp posts..well I know what i would say if I was a manufacturer! In anticipation the authority is gearing up to spend rate payers money on special hanging basket "trees". ...all because some council empire builder has been on a risk assessment course.


<hr width=100% size=1>My drinking team has a sailing problem

 

[Bergman]

Sorry

Nice try but no cigar

ID cards are not the answer

Supposedly impossible to entery country without passport, but hundreds do it every day.

To work legally in UK requires Nat Ins number. thousands, yes 1000s, work without NI number.

How would adding another bit of paper make any difference? I submit not one jot.

Sure TB would love to do it, much easier to control the law abiding who don't need controlling, bit like speed cameras. They don't mean a thing if your car is not registered in your name.

Same with ID card. Have to be legally obliged to carry the thing otherwise meaningless. So hundreds of people in court for forgetting it, police on every high street carrying out checks to nail them. Another revenue target for police, like the 3 motoring convictions a day they have now (South Yorks)

Totally disasterous idea.

The answer is money

So long as people are willing to pay thousands of pounds to be brought illegally to UK the trade, and it is a trade, will continue. So long as there is a high probability of being allowed to stay irrespective of legallity there will be a demand and the criminals who run the trade will meet that demand.

And why not, the trade in people is worth substantially more than the trade in heroin and the risks associated are smaller.

Get rid of the demand and the supply will disappear. And you do that by making it almost certain that economic migrants will not be allowed to stay.

No doubt there will be cries of racist; but it is not racist to prevent these poor people falling into the hands of those who sent them into Morecambe Bay last week, any more than it was racist of Wilberforce to seek to stop the slave trade.

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[TheBoatman]

Bit of a Rant!

I believe that part of the problem stemed from the government closing the Thames Estuary cockle fishery on what has been discribed as a tenuous report that there might be some pollutants in the shell fish., something which the Thames boys challenge.
This then placed a burden on the remaining fisheries (like Morecombe) and pushed up the wholesale price of cockles making it well worth a go at and opening the door to explotation.

The problem was not helped by the local (Morecombe) council de-regulating the fishery so that anyone applying for a digging/gathering licence was given one without question.

When such a situation exists within any fishery you will have problems either tragic as we have seen because it attracts inexperienced people or on a more ecological level i.e the fishery will be desimated.

When I was a lot younger, I dug bait, lugworms, for a living and during the boom period of both shore and boat fishing in the late '70s early 80's it attracted a very large number of inexperienced diggers. Most were on the dole and saw this as a way of earning good money "on the side", with the result that the Seasalter beds had to be shut because it almost destroyed the lugworm beds. Pegwell Bay almost went the same way and was only saved because there was a bl***y great big hovercraft that used to run from there.
On more than one occasion I found these people lost in the fog and wandering around with an incoming tide nipping at their heels.

Regulation is always a tough subject because in invariably upsets the "locals" who have been managing the fishery for generations and they see all these foreigners coming in and taking without consideration for the stocks, and before anyone jumps up and down by foreigners I mean people of any colour/creed who would not normally be there but for the incentives!

What I do find hard to take is that the Morecombe locals say they informed the "authorities" that there was a problem and nothing was done?

Maybe they should have forgotten the local council and phoned the IR and said they thought there was some major tax evasion going on? Who knows it might have got the buggers off their ar**s and prevented a major tragedy.

Rant over, for now<s>

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[BrianJ]

Yeah we know.. but we still love ya .....
BrianJ

<hr width=100% size=1>BrianJ