How would you fit a windvane to something like a moody s38, or similar?

[BobnLesley]

If the OP is interested in details of how the Monitor would mount; I do have pdf of their installation and maintenance manual on file; it's too large to upload onto here, but I can forward it if you pm me an email address.
Monitor would be my choice, but that was the unit which we used so I'm biased; it's often seemed as if everyone is biased towards the unit they chose, so enquire what folks' second choice would be.

 

[geem]

If the OP is interested in details of how the Monitor would mount; I do have pdf of their installation and maintenance manual on file; it's too large to upload onto here, but I can forward it if you pm me an email address.
Monitor would be my choice, but that was the unit which we used so I'm biased; it's often seemed as if everyone is biased towards the unit they chose, so enquire what folks' second choice would be.

The monitor would be particularly hard to fit to a sugar scoop. My view is that all servo pendulum steering systems work fine. The only thing that varies is weight and mounting arrangements.
The Windpilot is streets ahead for mounting on a sugar scoop.

 

[Roberto]

I think what he’s saying is that a windvane won’t perform as well as a autopilot when you have, say, 4 knots of breeze right up the chuff, and the near-zero apparent wind over the vane is not enough to make it function correctly to steer boat.

With 4kt of wind astern I have the engine on I doubt an electric pilot would work in wind mode, or without continuously pushing and pulling the rudder, it ought to be kept steering by the fluxgate compass; a wind steering system would definitely not work (except with the servo electric pilot)

For the OP, pictures of Windpilots and sugar scoop transoms; bear in mind the Windpilot can be in two main variants: one simply servo pendulum, the other is servo pendulum and additional rudder, the attachment points and fittings of course are different.
WINDPILOT - Photos / sugar

 

[geem]

With 4kt of wind astern I have the engine on I doubt an electric pilot would work in wind mode, or without continuously pushing and pulling the rudder, it ought to be kept steering by the fluxgate compass; a wind steering system would definitely not work (except with the servo electric pilot)

For the OP, pictures of Windpilots and sugar scoop transoms; bear in mind the Windpilot can be in two main variants: one simply servo pendulum, the other is servo pendulum and additional rudder, the attachment points and fittings of course are different.
WINDPILOT - Photos / sugar

The one with the independent rudder is the Pacific. Not as powerful as the plain old Windpilot as the rudder is smaller but it does give a fully independent steering system.

 

[RunAgroundHard]

There is an add on rudder for the Monitor wind vane for emergency steering. It’s an after market part, available from Scanmar, makers of Monitor. You can see it on their website

 

[Poignard]

I chose a Monitor for my Twister because the metals in its construction were bronze and stainless steel.

That made it heavy, and it was an ugly thing but by God, it worked well!

It was easy to operate and incredibly sensitive; so much so that you could even sail 'by the lee'.

If I bought another boat I would fit one.

 

[geem]

I chose a Monitor for my Twister because the metals in its construction were bronze and stainless steel.

That made it heavy, and it was an ugly thing but by God, it worked well!

It was easy to operate and incredibly sensitive; so much so that you could even sail 'by the lee'.

If I bought another boat I would fit one.

Some of that enhanced performance is your long keel boat. My experience is that all servo pendulum wind self steering devices use the same basic mechanics. There is little to choose between them in terms of performance. The Windpilot is the more modern out there being slimmer, and easier to fit on a range of transoms and sugar scoop.

 

[Sea Change]

I chose a Monitor for my Twister because the metals in its construction were bronze and stainless steel.

That made it heavy, and it was an ugly thing but by God, it worked well!

It was easy to operate and incredibly sensitive; so much so that you could even sail 'by the lee'.

If I bought another boat I would fit one.

Also chosen by Matt Rutherford when he spent over 300 days non stop circumnavigating the Americas on a 27ft Albin Vega. That's a pretty good endorsement.

 

[geem]

Also chosen by Matt Rutherford when he spent over 300 days non stop circumnavigating the Americas on a 27ft Albin Vega. That's a pretty good endorsement.

My pal circumnavigate on a 28 footer with an Aries. He swears by it. Another pal sold his Monitor and bought a very original bronze Aries. He loved it. The Monitor was one of the all s/s ones that developed cracks in the welds.
If you are a Yank you will go for a Monitor, if you are a German you prefer a Windpilot, if you are British it's the Aries. Just a bit of generalisation

 

[Sea Change]

My pal circumnavigate on a 28 footer with an Aries. He swears by it. Another pal sold his Monitor and bought a very original bronze Aries. He loved it. The Monitor was one of the all s/s ones that developed cracks in the welds.
If you are a Yank you will go for a Monitor, if you are a German you prefer a Windpilot, if you are British it's the Aries. Just a bit of generalisation

It tells us something about consumer satisfaction: most people swear that their own windvane or boat is the bees' knees.
This doesn't seem to apply to everything we own: how many times do you hear somebody swear that they'll never own another Fiat, Renault, etc...

 

[vyv_cox]

My pal circumnavigate on a 28 footer with an Aries. He swears by it. Another pal sold his Monitor and bought a very original bronze Aries. He loved it. The Monitor was one of the all s/s ones that developed cracks in the welds.
If you are a Yank you will go for a Monitor, if you are a German you prefer a Windpilot, if you are British it's the Aries. Just a bit of generalisation

When I bought my Windpilot it cost less than half the price of an Aries and, from memory, was about half the weight.

 

[thinwater]

Indeed. I’m deeply envious of anyone with a below deck AP - I was just pointing out an exception to what you said. If you have a transom hung rudder, tiller steered boat like mine the lack of a rudder post and quadrant necessitates an above deck TP, but as you say that’s not the sort of boat this thread is about so fair enough.

Google Pelagic tiller pilot. I've seen them on serious racing boats and many cruising boats.

 

[geem]

When I bought my Windpilot it cost less than half the price of an Aries and, from memory, was about half the weight.View attachment 201347

Yep, it why we have one.

 

[thinwater]

Threads on windvane steering are to UK forums what barefoot sailing is to warm water areas.

 

[DownWest]

Bit out of the mainstream, but I fitted a wind vane system to a chunky 60 odd foot ketch.

It was quite simple, an SS frame clamped onto the inboard rudder. Two tubes that ran aft (I had to lengthen them and make sockets) that terminated a bit aft of the transom. There was a simple wind vane on the stern that had a tube running down to a small foil in the water, through the end of the tubes from the rudder.
So the vane twisted the vertical shaft, the foil moved it sideways, which then shifted the (longish) arm on the rudder.
It looked and sounds, a bit crude. But, they set off to the Azores as a trial and said it worked well. Now pummeling my failing brain cells to remember who made the basic kit..

Boat was quite interesting. Designed by the guy that did Port Grimaud by St Tropez. He refused any requests for others.. It now resides in Villa Real de St Antonio and the owners are getting on a bit.... Not heard any news recently.

 

[fredrussell]

Google Pelagic tiller pilot. I've seen them on serious racing boats and many cruising boats.

Wouldn’t go near one after reading your fellow countrymen’s reports on Sailing Anarchy. Not a good press.

 

[Buck Turgidson]

Wouldn’t go near one after reading your fellow countrymen’s reports on Sailing Anarchy. Not a good press.

I have a NAC-2 driving a pcnautic ram on my tiller steered boat. No scaffolding off the back, almost all the electronics below deck.

 

[fredrussell]

I have a NAC-2 driving a pcnautic ram on my tiller steered boat. No scaffolding off the back, almost all the electronics below deck.

Yep. Got the same ram as a spare for my EV100 tiller pilot. The trouble for very responsive boats is that there is simply no ram that’ll move the tiller fast enough to get the boat back on track quickly after a strong gust. Your long keel boat tracks much better than my lighter ‘sporty’ one, which is obviously a good thing when it’s being steered by either an auto pilot or a windvane. I use the EV100 way more than the windvane, but it’s nice to have both.

 

[Sea Change]

Yep. Got the same ram as a spare for my EV100 tiller pilot. The trouble for very responsive boats is that there is simply no ram that’ll move the tiller fast enough to get the boat back on track quickly after a strong gust. Your long keel boat tracks much better than my lighter ‘sporty’ one, which is obviously a good thing when it’s being steered by either an auto pilot or a windvane. I use the EV100 way more than the windvane, but it’s nice to have both.

Can't you just move the tillerpilot further down the tiller, so it's acting on a shorter arm? That's an a quadrant mounted one of doing, after all.

 

[fredrussell]

Can't you just move the tillerpilot further down the tiller, so it's acting on a shorter arm? That's an a quadrant mounted one of doing, after all.

Yes - done that. Big improvement but ram still can’t move the tiller as fast as your arm and it’s working much harder due to shortened lever. EV100 is a very good pilot, and it’s rare that mine has been completely overpowered and lost control, but it does happen now and then when the winds up and there’s a short chop. That’s when the windvane takes over.
There are fancier tiller pilots by the likes of NKE but, a) they’re exclusively aimed at boats with a quadrant (Figaro, JPK, etc), and, b) they’re hideously expensive. I was following a guy install one on his Beneteau 27.7 and he had spent £15k and still hadn’t finished with the spending.