How to pass the RYA Yachtmaster practical exam

[Uricanejack]

I would imagine the RYA keep a record of who they issue a certificate to. While it may not give an accurate number how many actually find work.
There probably is a record of how many take the YM exam.
How many who take the YM pass.
and
I guess the point in which you are interested.

How many of those who pass go on and take the commercial endorsement. be it a number or a percentage.
Individual sail schools or training centre’s. May keep this kind of record for their own use.
probably useful to know who to aim the marketing of their course to.

probably most individual instructors can give a rough guess based on what their students tell them.

The number of people who actually find work is probably different altogether and will vary depending upon what you mean by work.
Ie. Somebody like me who, became an instructor as a hobby or pastime working a few weekends when I felt like it along with a few week long trips.
Or Somebody who does the occasional delivery.
Or compared to somebody who wanted to make a living. By finding full time work.

My perception of the YM is very old and predates the current system, When I sailed with people who had YM most were interested amateurs the requirements for certification to work on a yacht did not exist.
This changed and instead of the MCA running yacht certification the MCA Delegated certification to the RYA. who already had an existing system.
Which in turn has most likely changed the RYA system. In many ways.

The requirements of the MCA and meeting the requirements of STCW will continue to influence how the YM exists in the future so long as it has the commercial aspect.
For those who wish to be enthusiastic amateurs. It is still there. And the level of knowledge required is an impressive level for an amateur achievement.

Is it perfect? No.
have I ever met somebody who claimed to have a YM and gone Hmmm? Yep,

What I take from it when I hear somebody is a YM. Somebody has the interest, intent and put the effort in to learning how to do things properly. They’re worth talking to.

 

[awol]

You suggested that including crew management shows extra skills. I was pointing out that a course that focused on solo skippering would also demonstrate more skills. Just because the current syllabus is fit for purpose doesn’t mean a different one can’t be introduced. As I said earlier though, the commercials would prevent solo courses taking off, there are just too few people willing to spend the money to do a solo version.

The YM shore-based is a course but doesn't demonstrate an ability to sail, handle crew, nor make decisions, just an understanding of the syllabus. Neither does it count as a qualification. The YM practical is not a course, it is a test of competence where the "RYA way" is only one solution amongst others. It is certainly not a course attendance certificate like Day Skipper where the assessment is carried out by the instructor.

 

[john_morris_uk]

I understand that recovery is now required to be demonstrated. For some time now coded vessels have to have a verifiable method of recovering a MOB, which surveyors check, usually by requesting a video. Certainly in the mid 80's when I was examined, I remember having to explain to the examiner how we would retrieve the MOB back on board. There was also a famous Clyde (iirc) based examiner who would jump over in a drysuit and expect to be recovered, or so it was claimed, back then, but I never knew anyone who had that done to them, so maybe bull.

Nice points on the Halcyon web site.

I’d heard the story of that examiner too. In fact it was told me when I was appointed an examiner with strict instructions that it was not to be repeated and that person was not examining anymore!

The actual recovery of a Man Overboard is critical but the Man Overboard sailing exercise often tells the examiner far more about the candidate sailing ability and wind awareness than almost any other task that a candidate is set. Then the recovery aspect is certainly discussed and quizzed extensively. It’s no longer sufficient just to sail under control up to the fender and bucket/rope and retrieve it with a boat hook. The candidate needs to be able to give a coherent and workable solution for getting a man overboard out of the water and back onto the vessel.

 

[lustyd]

The YM shore-based is a course but doesn't demonstrate an ability to sail, handle crew, nor make decisions, just an understanding of the syllabus. Neither does it count as a qualification. The YM practical is not a course, it is a test of competence where the "RYA way" is only one solution amongst others. It is certainly not a course attendance certificate like Day Skipper where the assessment is carried out by the instructor.

Sorry, should have said syllabus, but then you probably knew that. Course in this instance is actually still correct since course refers to a series of training and outcomes for a qualification. Obviously my point doesn't change though, so hopefully this has clarified it for you?

 

[ylop]

You suggested that including crew management shows extra skills. I was pointing out that a course that focused on solo skippering would also demonstrate more skills. Just because the current syllabus is fit for purpose doesn’t mean a different one can’t be introduced. As I said earlier though, the commercials would prevent solo courses taking off, there are just too few people willing to spend the money to do a solo version.

My experience of YM instructors is they are very helpful and supportive people. If things are going well on a course I’ve absolutely no doubt that an instructor would share their wisdom on how to do a manouvre short handed. The point about managing crew is not that you have a squad of people to do every task it’s as much about ensuring people get rest etc - so you might have crew but it doesn’t mean there is no opportunity to get advice on handling the boat without waking them up etc. but also realising when this task is difficult and should involve all hands.

It seems that the critics of the course/exam haven’t done the actual course/exam and in fact I am guessing haven’t even done Day Skipper since that is also very much about looking after everyone on the boat rather than pure sailing skills. Now they want bits of paper to make it easier to insure or charter but want an exemption for the bits they don’t like, but that probably reduce risk to the charter co or insurer!

my local friendly YM instructor does lots of own boat tuition - if any of you actually want to learn rather than collect bits of paper she’ll teach you, on your boat, how to get the best out of if for the exact sort of sailing you do / want to do. I believe most schools will do the same. You won’t get a certificate at the end because there is not a universally agreed syllabus. The universally agreed syllabi include crew management. They don’t exclude doing things safely in ways that work short handed (indeed you might get brownie points for adapting to that if say one of the crew is physically weaker/shorter etc and so the classic technique wasn’t working too well). Contrary to widely held beliefs you won’t fail for not doing it the RYA way - unless the way you do it is dangerous or doesn’t prove the skills the exam wants.

 

[lustyd]

My experience of YM instructors is they are very helpful and supportive people. If things are going well on a course I’ve absolutely no doubt that an instructor would share their wisdom on how to do a manoeuvre short handed

You missed my point. On the current syllabus they test crew management skills. You said this was a good thing as it's extra skills. I was saying if they actually tested solo sailing that would test extra skills and also be a good thing. Whether an instructor is helpful or not isn't relevant here, we all know that in exchange for money an RYA instructor will come aboard and help with any questions you have, even if it's how to heave to and make tea on passage. I've done this a few times on my boat, but it didn't earn me a recognised certification of competence (obviously) to show insurers or accident investigators. As I said, it works both ways, there are always other skills which can be measured. The question here isn't whether a solo course would have value, it obviously does. The question is whether it's commercially viable to create and implement, and that's probably a no.

 

[Uricanejack]

You suggested that including crew management shows extra skills. I was pointing out that a course that focused on solo skippering would also demonstrate more skills. Just because the current syllabus is fit for purpose doesn’t mean a different one can’t be introduced. As I said earlier though, the commercials would prevent solo courses taking off, there are just too few people willing to spend the money to do a solo version.

Actually the RYA is probably ahead of the trend. My recollection of D.O.T. , TC USCG certification crew management was hardly mentioned at all. Limited mainly to hiring, firing and certifying their birth or death. A Marriage certification was never legal.

Of course I am getting on a bit. And the marine industry as a whole lags well behind the aviation industry in this regard.
Much of the motivation with aviation for this comes from Tenerife and others. But the requirement for training came out of Tenerife. Which came down to what can happen when crew management goes badly wrong.
Todays MCA, TC USCG or any STCW certification requires a crew management component. It’s an add on BRM. Bridge Resource Management.
Back in my day, it was something you learned or didn’t learn from experience.

My observations. The course tends to be short and the main points are usually missed completely by those who need it the most.
Actually getting existing people to use the stuff taught in such course is quite hard. New people relatively easy. Older people resist change.

This might not appear to be important when sailing your own boat. Particularly if you sail by yourself. It’s not a requirement to learn unless you want to find employment in the industry. When it becomes important.

As for learning to sail single handed. It’s a skill which you can develop. For yourself. For me. I learned by doing. BRM is not really a factor when you are alone.
For sailing, it was an instructor course which really taught me how to sail single handed. The particular sailing association and school I was an instructor for.
regaded it as important for instructor to be able to demonstrate the ability to sail single handed. Because as an instructor you would be taking novices out sailing.
The next requirement of being an instructor, was the ability to explain to complete novices how to do everything required to sail the boat in a simple step by step way so they could understand and complete each task. The ability to this single handed helped me to develop the ability to explain it.

So in my opinion or experience, being able to sail single handed is a valuable skill but it’s only a part of being able to sail a vessel well.

Is it part of the YM probably not.

is it part of the requirements to become an RYA instructor. I don’t know, I’m not an RYA instructor. Is it a worthwhile ability for an instructor to have? I thought so.

 

[SaltyC]

The YM shore-based is a course but doesn't demonstrate an ability to sail, handle crew, nor make decisions, just an understanding of the syllabus. Neither does it count as a qualification. The YM practical is not a course, it is a test of competence where the "RYA way" is only one solution amongst others. It is certainly not a course attendance certificate like Day Skipper where the assessment is carried out by the instructor.

At the risk of opening Pandoras box, we in the UK are fortunate, you do not need ANY formal qualifications to skipper / sail a boat. Some of us learnt (picked it up) from a young age with no formal instruction from others who had learnt the same way.

The RYA scheme allows those who have not been so fortunate to get formal skills through instruction, if they so desire, those who do not desire can go without. The scheme is not perfect, personally I feel the RYA are sub dividing courses to increase revenue - just my cynicism?

As stated above Dazed Kipper is an 'attendance' course - see then do with continuous assessment, many of us will have met said dazed kippers and wondered 'how did they pass'? Think car drivers ever wondered how they passed?

YM goes to a different level, a task is issued by the examiner, the candidate then completes whilst the examiner watches on, they miss NOTHING! (You also get subtlyrebuked if caught 'assisting' another candidate / covering up short comings) Once obtained you are deemed to have reached a standard, you will continue learning.

After 40 years of sailing I took the YM exam for my own personal satisfaction without the intention of commercial endorsement and paid employment. However, after 7 years I obtained a commercial endorsement as it allows me to 'volunteer' with charities and introduce others to the delights of sailing.

Although I single hand, it is my opinion, that those who can skipper with a crew can transfer their skills to S/H whereas the crew management skills need to be 'learnt'. A positive I have found sailing with other qualified skippers and crew is everyone has their own way of doing 'things', although there is a generic RYA way there is no wrong way but many alternative ways and sailing with others is always a learning experience - 2 way!

An examiner can learn a lot about a candidate by the way they instruct / manage the crew, your explaining of a task shows the depth of understanding, quiet calm instruction shows a knowledge and confidence in ability with what is going on and forward planning.
I await the exocets.

 

[lustyd]

So in my opinion or experience, being able to sail single handed is a valuable skill but it’s only a part of being able to sail a vessel well.

The whole point here though, is that this sentence could be written identically for crew management skills. Yes, they are valuable if you sail with crew, but they are not a necessity for skippering a boat.

 

[awol]

Sorry, should have said syllabus, but then you probably knew that. Course in this instance is actually still correct since course refers to a series of training and outcomes for a qualification. Obviously my point doesn't change though, so hopefully this has clarified it for you?

There is not, as far as I know, a formal YM practical course with a syllabus and outcomes. TherYM shore-based course does but certainly does not fully prepare for the practical. Some people after having skippered the requisite distance over the requisite nights pay a RYA instructor, who will not be the examiner, for a refresher or if the exam is to be taken on a third-party boat, familiarisation makes sense. Anyone could offer YM preparation, they do not require RYA endorsement. Many sailors have achieved the YM level of competence without any RYA training just as some pass the DSC VHF exam without the course.

 

[capnsensible]

As far as yachts and motored boat courses are concerned, I would like to point out that there is no repeat no 'RYA way or method'.

Seems to be a common misconception......

 

[lustyd]

There is not, as far as I know, a formal YM practical course with a syllabus and outcomes. TherYM shore-based course does but certainly does not fully prepare for the practical. Some people after having skippered the requisite distance over the requisite nights pay a RYA instructor, who will not be the examiner, for a refresher or if the exam is to be taken on a third-party boat, familiarisation makes sense. Anyone could offer YM preparation, they do not require RYA endorsement. Many sailors have achieved the YM level of competence without any RYA training just as some pass the DSC VHF exam without the course.

No there isn't, but there is a course of action that leads to the qualification. In some instances that's experience, learning the syllabus, and taking the exam. In others it's following the whole programme. I never said practical course, and you knew what I meant, so no problems

 

[Stemar]

It is certainly not a course attendance certificate like Day Skipper where the assessment is carried out by the instructor.

It's possible to fail DS, but it does require a fair degree of incompetence.

 

[jaminb]

I am studying for my Coastal Skipper within the next year and then hopefully progressing to YM and commercial endorsement at some point in the future.

I understand the managing the crew arguments previously listed but isn't the other significant issue that YM and singlehanded saling are diametrically opposed because of Long Passages and Rule 5 ?

thanks

 

[awol]

I understand the managing the crew arguments previously listed but isn't the other significant issue that YM and singlehanded saling are diametrically opposed because of Long Passages and Rule 5 ?
thanks

Not in summer on a fast(ish) boat. Night up here lasts about 5 hours in June, quite enough for a 60nm passage on a planing hull!

 

[jaminb]

Not in summer on a fast(ish) boat. Night up here lasts about 5 hours in June, quite enough for a 60nm passage on a planing hull!

YM requires 150 nm off shore?

 

[Chiara’s slave]

As far as yachts and motored boat courses are concerned, I would like to point out that there is no repeat no 'RYA way or method'.

Seems to be a common misconception......

That was my experience. There’s many ways that the examiner sees as safe and seamanlike. Not everything has to be done as a carbon copy of the course notes. The things we do on the Dragonfly are occasionally unconventional, but hopefully not unseamanlike. Our coming alongside techniques in cross winds, for instance. The same would hold for boats with extreme prop walk. Everyone must have their own little wrinkles, the book cannot define everyone and every boat.

 

[awol]

YM requires 150 nm off shore?

• 50 days at sea on yachts up to 500gt2 which may be reduced to 25 days if the candidate already holds an RYA Yachtmaster Offshore Certificate of Competence3;
• 5 days as skipper on vessels less than 24m LOA, which may be reduced to 3 days if the candidate already holds an RYA Yachtmaster Offshore Certificate of Competence3;
• 2500 miles on yachts up to 500gt2, which may be reduced to 1250 miles if the candidate already holds an RYA Yachtmaster Offshore Certificate of Competence3;
• 5 passages over 60 miles long, which must include 2 overnight passages and 2 as skipper, which may be reduced to 3 passages including 1 overnight and 1 as skipper if the candidate already holds an RYA Yachtmaster Offshore Certificate of Competence

...... from RYA Yachtmaster Offshore exam

 

[jaminb]

Ah ok understood thanks

RYA Yachtmaster Offshore exam

 

[benjenbav]

Ah ok understood thanks

RYA Yachtmaster Offshore exam

My YM practical involved approx 12 hours of pottering around the Solent, in and out of various places in daylight and in the dark; some passage planning; random help to a yacht in difficulty; conversation; mugs of tea and, as far as I recall, no actual rescuing of a fender. I assumed the idea was for the examiner to spend long enough to form a reasonable view of my capabilities in the context of his knowledge of what is required to skipper a yacht in most situations.