How to pass the RYA Yachtmaster practical exam

[RunAgroundHard]

Saying the word "Parbuckling" to an examiner, and winding a 19 stone man up with ropes or sails are quite different. I am curious if the YM exam actually entails demonstration of more than fender recovery though, I guess that's down to the examiner?

Most of the coded boats I am aware of have moved to some form of powered lifting, either by halyard, or dedicated tackle attached to a halyard, connected to the lifting strop in the lifejacket or lifting sling manoeuvred over the MOB. Parbuckling demonstrations fail the practical videoing test spectacularly. MOB attachment to lifting device remains awkward on modern high sided boats, hence the development of Duncan Wells Lifesavers, which make an awkward job incredibly easy. My experience is with current charter boats and recoding.

 

[lustyd]

I agree parbuckling is nigh on impossible, but so is powered lifting without a LJ so swings and roundabouts but demonstrates why trying it even in calm weather is so important. We eventually worked out it's safer to remove lifejackets at the top of the companionway than down below as leaving them in the way means they get put back on after the wee/tea/biscuit while taking them off below the crew inevitably put the LJ on the sofa then appeared back on deck refreshed but LJless

 

[ylop]

I agree that when sailing as a couple that’s how you should be but that is not the essence of Yachtmaster training.

I think it is very much the essence of YM training (and even DS training). Not everyone who passes a YM applies those skills once the leave. Not everyone was even that good at them to start with. BUT the biggest issue, IMHO is that either the partner doesn't want to be there or (IME) does want to be there but instead of the YM skipper helping them get professional training to their level so they both enjoy it, they wrongly believe they can teach them and 1/2 the course was nonsense anyway so will save the money. Even if they are good instructors few of us can teach our loved ones well.

And can you be examined with no crew?

No. Not for YM. Look at what the exam entails - then imagine convincing any organisation that you should be able to sit that exam alone (presumably with an examiner awake/alert throughout etc).

You can examine management of a boat quite easily. Nothing to do with how many crew - 0 to 50. Look at how well the Golden Globe boats will be managed.

I would argue that they can't possibly be managed to the standard that YM requires, because singlehanded 24 hr watchkeeping would be unacceptable. Probably precisely the same reason insurers get jumpy about it - just because other people do it doesn't make it a wise idea.

They have to accord with the RYA's view or go away.

No, but if you believe you are already a super competent solo sailer why do you need the RYA to give you a bit of paper to say this?

Occasionally I toy with the idea of getting some more formal structured tuition. Threads like this are very useful for reminding me that it would be a colossal waste of time and money. Thank you.

Maybe another course could be added for those that don't sail with a crew?

You know you can both go to virtually any RYA school and they will provide you with personalised tuition (on their boat or yours) for exactly what you want. The economics of running multiday 1-2-1 courses probably mean there won't be the demand needed to make a new syllabus, 1/2 of which would overlap with existing courses anyway.

 

[Adios]

"why do you need it if you're single handing happily already" = cheaper insurance? ease of chartering? general gall at having the most widely accepted proof of boat sailing competence excluding such a common way to sail.

Maybe RYA should have a "Yachtmaster (solo)" test on offer, how hard would it be to offer this @capnsensible if already offering yachtmaster? I did an ICC single handed plus examiner, it didn't actually occur to me to question if there would/should be crew. Solo tickets would be a potential new revenue stream for schools and potential new opportunity to encourage the many mainly single handers and occasionally casual crewed boaters to interact with the RYA syllabus. Whats not to like.

 

[capnsensible]

Another view.

Learn to drive a car with a manual gearbox.

Pass driving test.

Go off and drive what you like for the rest of your life up to your licence size limit.

 

[ylop]

"why do you need it if you're single handing happily already" = cheaper insurance?

have you actually costed it with / without the qualifications? From what I could tell on my recent policy, experience was far more important than qualifications. I'd probably be lucky to get a ROI on insurance savings from my whole life from insurance discounts. In general insurance discounts take two forms - a marketing incentive (to make you believe that as a member of this club you get some special deal) or a statistical difference (because on average people with this tick box are, on average, likely to make fewer claims). Given some insurers actually have policy restrictions on single handing I suspect your hypothetical qualification could have the opposite effect!

ease of chartering?

Really? I've never heard of anyone having a problem chartering who had a Day Skipper qualification and the background pre-requisitie hours/years experience for YM. However, I do know many/most charter firms insist there is a second person on board who has the necessary experience to take control of the boat if the skipper is taken unwell/falls overboard - so most charter firms would not be keen of YM's who are unable to work with a crew (and it would seem a very expensive option).

general gall at having the most widely accepted proof of boat sailing competence excluding such a common way to sail.

it doesn't exclude it - it requires you to show additional skills.

Maybe RYA should have a "Yachtmaster (solo)" test on offer,

Typically a YM course will have at least 4 people paying what £500+ each on board (not all will necessarily be YM candidates). So if you want to do it alone - are you prepared to pay £2000 for your "lesser" ticket that could not be commercially endorsed?

Solo tickets would be a potential new revenue stream for schools and potential new opportunity to encourage the many mainly single handers and occasionally casual crewed boaters to interact with the RYA syllabus.

I suspect the RYA are already confident there is no real market - if people want to get instruction on tricks for sailing singlehanded most schools could provide that, and if they aren't feeding back that each school is running lots of these bespoke sessions just for solo sailers there is no market. Either that is because many solo sailors are happy to do YM anyway (or perhaps do it on their path to becoming good solo sailors) OR the sort of people who don't interact well with crew actually don't interact well with instructors!

 

[lustyd]

it doesn't exclude it - it requires you to show additional skills.

To be fair that works both ways.

 

[mm42]

It does make me laugh every time there is a mention of YM on these fora, there are always comments in several specific veins:

* I'm really good, Yachtmaster couldn't teach me anything
* Yachtmasters often have no real world experience
* It's just an RYA money making scheme
* I met a YM once and he was shit.
* Why doesn't the YM scheme work like I expect it should.
* I bet the YM doesn't cover XYZ ludicrously implausible combination of events and circumstances.

Every single time.

All you need to remember is that the majority of people going through a YM exam are doing it for a commercial qualification, which they will then use on commercial vessels. It's not usually hobbyists, or enthusiasts, or indeed old salts with a billion singlehanded sea miles.

 

[ylop]

To be fair that works both ways.

I don’t know what that means.

All you need to remember is that the majority of people going through a YM exam are doing it for a commercial qualification, which they will then use on commercial vessels. It's not usually hobbyists, or enthusiasts, or indeed old salts with a billion singlehanded sea miles.

I wonder what the stats on that are?
YM coastal
YM offshore
YM ocean

and which are intending to commercially endorse; and those that do -do they actually use their certificates as a main job?

 

[mm42]

I wonder what the stats on that are?
YM coastal
YM offshore
YM ocean

and which are intending to commercially endorse; and those that do -do they actually use their certificates as a main job?

I work on workboats and the majority are skippered by skippers either with YM Offshore or who have used their YM Offshore as a stepping stone to Master 200GT.

 

[Praxinoscope]

All you need to remember is that the majority of people going through a YM exam are doing it for a commercial qualification, which they will then use on commercial vessels. It's not usually hobbyists, or enthusiasts, or indeed old salts with a billion singlehanded sea miles.
[/QUOTE]

If the above is correct, I must be one of a small minority, I took the YM exam purely for personal satisfaction, no thought of commercial use, and yes 40 years on I am still learning.

 

[jaminb]

I work on workboats and the majority are skippered by skippers either with YM Offshore or who have used their YM Offshore as a stepping stone to Master 200GT.

Is that what you need to drive a ferry to IoW or round Brownsea Island?

 

[capnsensible]

I don’t know what that means.

I wonder what the stats on that are?
YM coastal
YM offshore
YM ocean

and which are intending to commercially endorse; and those that do -do they actually use their certificates as a main job?

I have for the past 24 years.

 

[goeasy123]

After a long and obtuse argument with a very experienced YM examiner about the pedagogical failings of the RYA sylibus he eventually ask what 'pedagogical' meant. .... went very quiet after that.

 

[mm42]

After a long and obtuse argument with a very experienced YM examiner about the pedagogical failings of the RYA sylibus he eventually ask what 'pedagogical' meant. .... went very quiet after that.

Way to go! You told him!!! ?

 

[Uricanejack]

Actually. A Parbuckle works quite well.

The Op asks what we might add to his list of things to prepare.

Practice thinking aloud. Encourage your crew to think aloud as well.
Try to use closed loop communication. I’m not a good communicator it’s not something I found intuitive or easy it required practice. Some people find it easy.

WT heck does that mean?

In simple terms, Thinking aloud just means talk about what your are doing, why you are doing what you are doing and welcome impute from your crew. If you see something talking about it will involve your crew, they will look at it and understand why it matters. When they see something they will tell you. Thank them and ask them what they think you should do.
It makes life easier for you.
And it will demonstrate to an observer you know what’s going on.

Closed loop communication is a little bit more complex and less natural.

If you did a VHF course you have probably done some of it. It’s a bit formal. Rather than natural. Sound a little odd. But you will probably have heard John Mills use it in old war movies.

The idea is to send an instruction clearly So it is understood by the receiver.

This only achieves part of the desired communication an instruction got sent To someone. You don’t know if it got received and understood correctly.

The receiver of the instruction should reply back to the sender of the instruction repeating the instruction as heard and as understood.

Most of my generation and older would leave it as this if after hearing our instruction repeated back correctly.
The problem being by leaving it I have not yet confirmed my instruction was received and understood correctly.

To correctly close the loop you should confirm the instruction was received correctly. I like to use a yes thanks, since I was brought up to be polite. Other would argue it’s an order not a request and shorten it to just yes. Or you can stick with John Mills and use Rodger. Or any other affirmations you choose.

When sailing with my wife, we have an agreement which works for us. She willingly comes sailing with me provided I don’t tell her what to do or try and teach her how to sail. Fortunately she likes it when I talk to her, so when I tell her what I am doing and planning to do she often offers to help and quite happily tells me what she thinks I should be doing.
it doesn’t have to be particularly formal to work.

Appart for trying to impress an examiner, if you make a habit of thinking aloud and and using some closed loop. The thinking aloud particularly will help develop your crews trust in your ability and judgment. And your trust in thiere.
The closed loop will reduce if not eliminate misunderstandings and disputes arising out of them.

 

[mm42]

Actually. A Parbuckle works quite well.

The Op asks what we might add to his list of things to prepare.

Practice thinking aloud. Encourage your crew to think aloud as well.
Try to use closed loop communication. I’m not a good communicator it’s not something I found intuitive or easy it required practice. Some people find it easy.

WT heck does that mean?

In simple terms, Thinking aloud just means talk about what your are doing, why you are doing what you are doing and welcome impute from your crew. If you see something talking about it will involve your crew, they will look at it and understand why it matters. When they see something they will tell you. Thank them and ask them what they think you should do.
It makes life easier for you.
And it will demonstrate to an observer you know what’s going on.

Closed loop communication is a little bit more complex and less natural.

If you did a VHF course you have probably done some of it. It’s a bit formal. Rather than natural. Sound a little odd. But you will probably have heard John Mills use it in old war movies.

The idea is to send an instruction clearly So it is understood by the receiver.

This only achieves part of the desired communication an instruction got sent To someone. You don’t know if it got received and understood correctly.

The receiver of the instruction should reply back to the sender of the instruction repeating the instruction as heard and as understood.

Most of my generation and older would leave it as this if after hearing our instruction repeated back correctly.
The problem being by leaving it I have not yet confirmed my instruction was received and understood correctly.

To correctly close the loop you should confirm the instruction was received correctly. I like to use a yes thanks, since I was brought up to be polite. Other would argue it’s an order not a request and shorten it to just yes. Or you can stick with John Mills and use Rodger. Or any other affirmations you choose.

When sailing with my wife, we have an agreement which works for us. She willingly comes sailing with me provided I don’t tell her what to do or try and teach her how to sail. Fortunately she likes it when I talk to her, so when I tell her what I am doing and planning to do she often offers to help and quite happily tells me what she thinks I should be doing.
it doesn’t have to be particularly formal to work.

Appart for trying to impress an examiner, if you make a habit of thinking aloud and and using some closed loop. The thinking aloud particularly will help develop your crews trust in your ability and judgment. And your trust in thiere.
The closed loop will reduce if not eliminate misunderstandings and disputes arising out of them.

I’d add to the closed loop comms, let me the skipper know when you’ve completed the action I’ve asked of you, this is how we work on my lifeboat, and on the ships I work on:

Skipper: Crew rig for alongside port side to
Crew: Rig for port side to, aye
Skipper: thanks
…
Crew: Rigged for port side to
Skipper: Roger

 

[ylop]

I work on workboats and the majority are skippered by skippers either with YM Offshore or who have used their YM Offshore as a stepping stone to Master 200GT.

Ok, so the obvious follow up question is, how does the commercial / non commercial uptake vary between YM power and YM Sail?

also because the majority of commercial vessels (of an appropriate size) are skippered by YM’s (or people who started as YM’s) it doesn’t mean that the majority of people who sit YM ever do any commercial work.

I have for the past 24 years.

yes but that’s not the question I was asking! I have no doubt that many do, my point was how many don’t?

 

[john_morris_uk]

Well, maybe his sailing wasn't good enough for the RYA, is what you mean?

His sailing was adequate. However crew control and management and his ability to handle a yacht in close quarters situations wasn’t good. And I don’t think I ought to comment any further for risk of speculation as to who this person is…!

 

[lustyd]

I don’t know what that means

You suggested that including crew management shows extra skills. I was pointing out that a course that focused on solo skippering would also demonstrate more skills. Just because the current syllabus is fit for purpose doesn’t mean a different one can’t be introduced. As I said earlier though, the commercials would prevent solo courses taking off, there are just too few people willing to spend the money to do a solo version.