How to pass the RYA Yachtmaster practical exam

dgadee

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I am aware that under stress I tend not to communicate well. This doesn't matter when sailing alone. I do not intend to take the Yachtmaster exam but recognise my shortcomings.

That is what the mate says about me, not just in times of stress. She, on the other hand, was a schoolteacher and has an inability to listen.
 

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For me all the Yachtmaster prep would have added much less value if I hadn’t been instructed on crew management too. I had sailed for 25 years at that point with family and as a couple but occasional non-sailing guests are no preparation for a crew who expect to be doing things, and doing them safely. I learnt loads and lots of that was tested. Without crew management as part of the exam I don’t think it’s Yachtmaster, it’s just a big boat dinghy certificate.
I was agreeing until the last sentence. Surely they test seamanship, navigation, weather awareness, boat handling, forward planning, contingency planning, safety considerations, communications etc. I think being able to demonstrate you can competently do all of that single handed, (lets add prioritizing jobs), must surely be a higher level exam than someone able to do it while relying on competent crew. In fact go further, maybe another element they should add to the yachtmaster is testing if you can do the above after all of the previously relied on crew have been incapacitated with sickness. Can everyone who always sails with crew manage alone?
 

RupertW

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When I started to sail a crew of 5 was not unusual on a 30 foot cruising boat. Now, with more advanced handling systems it seems to be more usual to see a couple, with the female not always keen on getting involved. You have to think of sailing as being solo with a crew member who may get things right or may not - even if you tell them what you expect. And these boats are often 40 or more feet these days.

Edit: change that. I have seen competent wives and hopeless husbands, too.
I agree that when sailing as a couple that’s how you should be but that is not the essence of Yachtmaster training.
 

dgadee

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I agree that when sailing as a couple that’s how you should be but that is not the essence of Yachtmaster training.

And? Does that suggest the training and examination may be out of date? Irrelevant to a lot of today's sailors?

I don't know anything of the RYA but it looks like an entity which finds itself - for a number of reasons - unable to keep up with current needs and techniques. Hand calculate secondary ports anyone? It is not innovative enough to my eyes.
 

R.Ems

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I was agreeing until the last sentence. Surely they test seamanship, navigation, weather awareness, boat handling, forward planning, contingency planning, safety considerations, communications etc. I think being able to demonstrate you can competently do all of that single handed, (lets add prioritizing jobs), must surely be a higher level exam than someone able to do it while relying on competent crew. In fact go further, maybe another element they should add to the yachtmaster is testing if you can do the above after all of the previously relied on crew have been incapacitated with sickness. Can everyone who always sails with crew manage alone?
That's why I visited several countries s/h, when I first bought my old and heavy gaff cutter, and practiced all the standard evolutions so I could tallk them though, demo them, and watch the new crew smile and punch the sky with that sspeeial feeeling of achievement!
(My personal thrill is a snap downwind gybe, at high speed)
So ideally aanyone who might be in charge of the boat, in a perfect world, ought to be able to do the basics, and what you incllude in the term iss another subjeecct in itself!!
 

john_morris_uk

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And? Does that suggest the training and examination may be out of date? Irrelevant to a lot of today's sailors?

I don't know anything of the RYA but it looks like an entity which finds itself - for a number of reasons - unable to keep up with current needs and techniques. Hand calculate secondary ports anyone? It is not innovative enough to my eyes.
It appears that you have a particular view as to what sailing a yacht is all about and because the YM scheme doesn’t appear to match that view, then it must be wrong.
Perhaps there wound be fewer partners who are poor/incompetent sailors if their skippers learned how to manage boat and crew better? Might I humbly suggest that if you claiming your wife doesn’t listen, it’s not because she was once a teacher, but because your might not be communicating very well about sailing your yacht.
PS My wife was a teacher,deputy head, headteacher and is now an inspector.
PPS The YM scheme doesn’t require people to sign up to Competent Crew courses to be fodder for YM candidates. It doesn’t even require you to go to an RYA sea school. You can ask to be examined on your own boat with your wife and a friend as crew.
PPPS The RYA have updated the requirements and syllabus over the years. eg. GPS and plotters weren’t invented when I started sailing. They’re now a mandatory part of the exam.
 

dgadee

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PPS The YM scheme doesn’t require people to sign up to Competent Crew courses to be fodder for YM candidates. It doesn’t even require you to go to an RYA sea school. You can ask to be examined on your own boat with your wife and a friend as crew.

And can you be examined with no crew?
 

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It appears that you have a particular view as to what sailing a yacht is all about and because the YM scheme doesn’t appear to match that view, then it must be wrong.
With the greatest respect, from the outside it appears as though it's the RYA that has a particular view of what sailing a yacht is all about. I.e. that it's all about crew management.

This is a topic that crops up on the forums every now and then. I recall that the general advice is that if you only ever single hand, then the YM courses/qualifications are irrelevant.
 
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john_morris_uk

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And can you be examined with no crew?
How do you examine the management of boat and crew with no crew?
Even people who sail singlehanded take friends sailing sometimes.
Also my experience is that many people who sail singlehanded might be excellent sailors but they’re piss poor skippers. In simple terms, people don’t enjoy sailing with them because they’re useless at communicating what they want to happen. They often then get grumpy with their crew for things not happening. (Perhaps they sometimes suggest their crew aren’t very good at listening?)
The YM qualification is a SKIPPERING qualification. It’s a given (or should be) that you can sail the boat when you present yourself to be examined.
 

dgadee

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How do you examine the management of boat and crew with no crew?
Even people who sail singlehanded take friends sailing sometimes.
Also my experience is that many people who sail singlehanded might be excellent sailors but they’re piss poor skippers. In simple terms, people don’t enjoy sailing with them because they’re useless at communicating what they want to happen. They often then get grumpy with their crew for things not happening. (Perhaps they sometimes suggest their crew aren’t very good at listening?)
The YM qualification is a SKIPPERING qualification. It’s a given (or should be) that you can sail the boat when you present yourself to be examined.

You can examine management of a boat quite easily. Nothing to do with how many crew - 0 to 50. Look at how well the Golden Globe boats will be managed.

That the YM qualification is about managing crew was clear from Halcyon's post. That's fine, but it does indicate that the RYA have a view of yachting which doesn't seem to include a lot of current sailors. They have to accord with the RYA's view or go away.
 

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And can you be examined with no crew?
Its an interesting point this. I can see the idea that "yachtmaster" should probably cover having to keep your head while shouting "No, that bit of rope!" at passengers who haven't a clue but insist on doing something. Managing their sick bucket. Fetching them out when they fall overboard etc. It is an extra challenge that nearly all of us have to put up with at some point. But having competent seaworthy crew doing your bidding doesn't seem like a big enough extra challenge to warrant making it obligatory. A bit of delegation isn't hard, in fact if they know what to do before you tell them presumably skippers could pass their yachtmaster more easily while relying on the crew. Should it even be allowed to pass a yachtmaster with so much help???
 

Stemar

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But having competent seaworthy crew doing your bidding
Seems to me that the trick is too keep 'em like that - well fed and watered, lubricated when appropriate - and willing to come back. That's crew management. If you can bring 'em along so they go from competent crew to a decent No 2, so much the better.

For the GOGs, who prefer their own company, well, that bit of it is like the bits you have to learn to do to pass your driving test and never use again, like hand signals when I took my test. Then I got a motor bike and had to use them! (Do they still do hand signals now? Far too many cars don't even seem to know how to use their flashers)

In some ways, if people management isn't your natural strength, that bit's even more important for the skipper course/test, so you've got an idea how it works when it's suddenly thrust on you.
 

dgadee

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Its an interesting point this. I can see the idea that "yachtmaster" should probably cover having to keep your head while shouting "No, that bit of rope!" at passengers who haven't a clue but insist on doing something. Managing their sick bucket. Fetching them out when they fall overboard etc. It is an extra challenge that nearly all of us have to put up with at some point. But having competent seaworthy crew doing your bidding doesn't seem like a big enough extra challenge to warrant making it obligatory. A bit of delegation isn't hard, in fact if they know what to do before you tell them presumably skippers could pass their yachtmaster more easily while relying on the crew. Should it even be allowed to pass a yachtmaster with so much help???

Yes, get your mates who've been sailing for years as your crew and you can just stand back and give one word commands. A bit less demanding in terms of yacht management than going into a berth solo. Poor Concerto could sail around Britain and not - in RYA terms - be considered a Yachtmaster.
 

capnsensible

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Good job the scheme is voluntary or some posters may explode with indignation.

Perhaps some should look at the history of the Yachtmaster scheme and attempt to remove the RYA fiction from their heads.

And perhaps wonder why it's hugely successful, has been exported all over the world and is a stepping stone to a career in the marine business world.

The freedom to drip and moan about it is your right. As is the option of not bothering. But please don't be surprised by the answers from those with over 25 years involved with the scheme and its development and the coaching and examining of candidates don't agree with those that guess stuff.

For me, the original post is excellent and posted to help and encourage. Shame that some don't get that.,
 

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Good job the scheme is voluntary or some posters may explode with indignation.

Perhaps some should look at the history of the Yachtmaster scheme and attempt to remove the RYA fiction from their heads.

And perhaps wonder why it's hugely successful, has been exported all over the world and is a stepping stone to a career in the marine business world.

The freedom to drip and moan about it is your right. As is the option of not bothering. But please don't be surprised by the answers from those with over 25 years involved with the scheme and its development and the coaching and examining of candidates don't agree with those that guess stuff.

For me, the original post is excellent and posted to help and encourage. Shame that some don't get that.,
You’ve not addressed the crux of the mater. Would Concerto fail the practical if his team talk was weak and he missed when trying to high five someone after a tack?
 

dgadee

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Good job the scheme is voluntary or some posters may explode with indignation.

Perhaps some should look at the history of the Yachtmaster scheme and attempt to remove the RYA fiction from their heads.

And perhaps wonder why it's hugely successful, has been exported all over the world and is a stepping stone to a career in the marine business world.

The freedom to drip and moan about it is your right. As is the option of not bothering. But please don't be surprised by the answers from those with over 25 years involved with the scheme and its development and the coaching and examining of candidates don't agree with those that guess stuff.

For me, the original post is excellent and posted to help and encourage. Shame that some don't get that.,

Too right, the RYA has been very successful but does that make it perfect?

I was showing someone the other day how to spring off a pontoon (he was having a goodly bit of trouble) and as he was going off he said, "oh, yes. Now I remember - I did that for my day skipper .."
 

john_morris_uk

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Yes, get your mates who've been sailing for years as your crew and you can just stand back and give one word commands. A bit less demanding in terms of yacht management than going into a berth solo. Poor Concerto could sail around Britain and not - in RYA terms - be considered a Yachtmaster.
If you spent the exam giving one word commands to crew who were familiar with your boat you’d struggle to pass your YM exam.
I know of a famous round the world sailor who subsequently failed his YM exam. He was tough as old boots and could sail but useless at crew management. (His sailing wasn’t that good either.)
 

lustyd

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Also my experience is that many people who sail singlehanded might be excellent sailors but they’re piss poor skippers.
Are you therefore saying that Concerto isn't skippering his boat right now? I think the crux of the issue is that what you (and the RYA, and capn, rest of world etc.) think skippering is and what dgadee and I think skippering is might not be well aligned.

Just because YM is hugely successful, doesn't mean there isn't room for another qualification addressing solo/shorthanded/grumpy loner sailors. I suspect the real reason this doesn't exist is that it's not commercially viable rather than there's no demand. With YM the costs are often shared for the boat and instructor/examiner but a solo cert would by definition leave a single person footing the bill. Not to mention, it would remove the ability to learn from seeing others operate which obviously offers some value.

That said, the current setup excludes people with certain neuro-diversities (ASD, for instance) from the program, so some effort ought to be made to be more inclusive since that's a large part of the population.
 

Black Sheep

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Also my experience is that many people who sail singlehanded might be excellent sailors but they’re piss poor skippers. In simple terms, people don’t enjoy sailing with them because they’re useless at communicating what they want to happen. They often then get grumpy with their crew for things not happening. (Perhaps they sometimes suggest their crew aren’t very good at listening?)
And there we have it. If you don't sail the way that the RYA want you to (in a fully crewed boat) then, according to an RYA accredited YM instructor, you're a "piss poor skipper". Way to go there, abusing a whole cohort of competent sailors. Teamwork much?
It’s a given (or should be) that you can sail the boat when you present yourself to be examined.
So YM is nothing to do with sailing or seamanship. All to do with crew management. Totally useless for us singlehanders.

Occasionally I toy with the idea of getting some more formal structured tuition. Threads like this are very useful for reminding me that it would be a colossal waste of time and money. Thank you.
 
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