How to choose the first yacht

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I think a lot of people rush into boat ownership when what they really need is to build up experience and skills. ....


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Really useful advice in that post - indeed all the posts here make useful points, but KenMcCulloch's especially.

Again and again you will be told - and it seems to make sense - "if you want to go sailing, buy a boat ... ".
Cobblers. Poppycock. Rubbish. Stop and think for a moment. No, really, stop and think.

If you buy a boat -
a. it's a lot of money, not just the purchase, also the upkeep. If all you can afford at present is 10k for purchase, the upkeep cost is beyond your means.
b. You want to buy a boat for £10k, you want to go across channel, you have no experience in boat maintenance which you will need to make and keep an older boat seaworthy. Do us a favour.
c. You don't have the knowledge or experience to sail by yourself or with just a novice crew - certainly not across channel.
d. Try suggesting to a charter company that you want to charter a boat for a cross-Channel trip, you have just Day Skipper without much experience, you have one crew member who hasn't much experience. Guess what they will say? There might be a reason for this.

Practical advice.
Day Skipper - yes good idea. Don't forget that you will need some experience logged before you can qualify though - it's more than just courses and exams. Think how you will get that experience.

Other people's boats. Yes, You will learn a great deal from crewing for skippers who instil confidence (not all do, and surly/incompetent ones are easily avoided).
There are far more (decent) skippers wanting crew than crew needing skippers.

Clubs. Some of these own boats and have a system for matching crew, mates and skippers. You can sail in Club boats, have an enjoyable time, learn a lot, safely and cheaply. (You may also learn about boat maintenance.)

Dinghy sailing. Really. You will learn about how to handle a sailing boat more quickly this way than any other.

Once you have some more experience under your belt - THEN you can think about buying a boat. You will know what to look for and what you want to do.

And a final point. Go round any marina on a sunny Summer weekend. See how many boats remain moored, moored where they have been for weeks or months. These are boats owned by people like you, who thought they should buy a boat, who thought they would use it a lot, but get little use from it. Learn from them but don't join them. The South Coast is FAR too full of their boats.

And enjoy your sailing. Let someone else have the grief and expense.
 
I'm afraid I'm with blackbeard on this one. I would book a summer med day skipper/comp crew so break SWMBO in gently and then charter with more experienced people or a sailing school and professional skipper on a cross channel.

I followed that route and 4 years in bought a £4,500 eboat. (brave) People have been accross the Atlantic in a beefed up eboat, I'm happy pottering around in the black water with short coastal hops. I also know that a F6+ in more than 3m waves with my wife and child on board a 22ft boat isn't going to be a happy place.

It means I get to sail and gain experience in the dark arts of antifoul electrics and other maintenance without the pressure of big boat to go out every weekend and maximise the money I'm pouring into it.

Unless you have a desire to do lots of work and SWMBO will accept a 70's formica/ply interior old engine (I know I'm generalising a bit) then I think for a 30+ft novice friendly offshore type of boat I reckon you need more like £20k.

I'm not of the 'you must be born in a dingy and own a MAB for 20 years brigade', IMHO there is nothing wrong in getting experience at a school and getting some comfortable experience in a 30ft sunsail boat in which you can take a crap in comfort, know the engine will work and the there will be a fridge for cold beer once your tied up at the end of the day before embarking on the muddier/ oilier waters of mab ownership.
 
Hi Steve,
The advice given to me when I first became interested in sailing was as KenMcCulloch's. I found there were loads of people willing to take on (extra) crew and I had over two years of excellent experience and time to "fine tune" my needs with my desires. Also had the time to do the relevant courses, from which I benefited greatly (as well as keeping me legal)
 
I was sailing for 35 years (in dinghies and crewing in cruisers) before I bought my first cruiser. What you see will affect your thoughts greatly. Start looking by all means but keep your wallet at home, and follow the sail a lot first advice
 
Steve, I note you are on the Planet Thanet - that really restricts your moorings locally. In fact, pretty much Ramsgate Harbour, unless you go up the Stour to Sandwich, which is restrcted waters, bt much cheaper.
Other choice is Dover, which also means a bit of travel.
No mooring in Whitstable -all trawl fisherman.
Which leaves the creeks of the Swale - all getting away from Thanet.

Get a lift keeler for Sandwich.....
 
I agree with the majority of what's been said above, especially about training and experience - but here's an alternative. How about joining a syndicate? Rather than a thirty-year-old 27-footer you could have a five-year-old thiry-two footer for the same capital outlay and a fraction (a quarter/fifth?) of the running costs. Obviously you won't get as much access to the boat as one that you own yourself, but who uses their own boat every weekend anyway? I'm part of a syndicate of four and we have a boat that I couldn't/wouldn't afford on my own. If you'd like to know more do a search on sharing or syndicates on the forum. If you'd like to know something more specific PM me.
 
One final comment " nip over to France, enjoy the wine & food & back home the following day" (or something similar).

That's a lovely idea & one day it will happen, but unless you pick your time, you will cross between depressions & get stuck in some French harbour for 3-4 days waiting for the right conditions to get home again!

There & back on consequetive days is OK for a strong crew & well found boat, for a novice it is not always easy to acheive.
 
I bought my first boat last year and dearly love it 90% of the time. Most will admit to the 10% of their time when they simply have to have a bigger boat until dreams fade back into reality and that may have something to do with money!
The one piece of advice which transends all such purchases that are likely to be made with emotion rather than practicality in mind (Big Boys Toys), look at anything worthwhile twice. the first time you will come away in love with it and ignore any imperfections. Go back and specifically look for anything that bugs you about it as it will be these things and only these things that will prey upon you when the novelty wears off and you have to justify spending the next lump of money.
 
I even wonder whether it's possible to ever find just what you want first time anyway! We bought our first boat for no other reason than it was cheap and needed a lot of work. A little Leisure 17 and an absolute jewel of a boat she was too. You don't say whether you're heavily into DIY or not but we had this boat for two or three seasons and sold her on, covering our costs as a result of all the work we'd done. That experience gave us a much better idea of the kind of boat we wanted next.

I can also heartily recommend a Cutlass 27 as an utter joy to sail and pretty cheap - £6-12k but looking at where you intend to cruise, a boat that can take the ground might be better. In any case, space below is at a premium if that's an important consideration for SWMBO - I've been aboard 25 footers with more room inside!
 
Buy a dinghy (Bosun, ex-RN, tough as F***), sail it on your own as far as you dare and then a bit further. Wear a life jacket, buy an EPIRB. Go out in all weather, unless truly suicidal. Go out again. One year later buy a Halcyon 23 (triple keel). Do the same as with the dinghy. Lots. The next year Buy something like a Trapper 500, sabre 27, halcyon 27, Folksong, Pionier 9, Invicta 26 etc (all under 10k).
Now you are ready to take your wife out. Choose the weather very carefully, dose her with Stugeron or equivalent, and take her on a short, magical trip. Sunset a bonus. Carry on in the same vein, never forgetting to learn as much as you can from the beginning. Learn, learn, learn. The best way is by sailing.
Fear not. Carry your heart in your mouth and on your sleeve. Let fate have its way and LIVE.
Never forget who is in charge though. The ocean will always crap on the unwary.
Nicki.
 
Having bought our first boat 4 years ago, THAT is good advice, IMHO. Whilst I don't disagree with the points made by BlackBeard, et al, I feel that the overall impression is too negative.

Actually, I think BlackBeard's post and Nikki_C's represent opposite ends of the spectrum, and which one you should read depends on your outlook:

If you see the whole thing as a bit of an adventure; messing about in boats is dear to your heart; you have fixed cars and houses in the past, and expect to do the same with a boat; SWMBO is of the same mind, or content to let you disappear regularly for several days, and pour in £££s to pursue YOUR hobby until the Time Is Right for her to join you, then read Nikki_C's post.

If you see yourself in a captain's hat, scything along through an azure sea under dazzling white sails with SWMBO sipping cocktails in a bikini; only to hand the boat back to a dock hand at the end of the day, then read BB's post.

The missing factor is the pleasure / joy / pride in owning your OWN boat, however modest.

Do you like boats, or do you just enjoy sailing??

As one of the former, I would say "go for it", with the provisos: Find a mooring and get a boat to suit; Don't stretch your budget; By a 'mainstream' design; Don't by *anything* that "needs work" (There will be plenty to do, with one in good condition); get a survey; if SWMBO isn't keen then get the hang of the boat with a friend for crew before taking her out on it; If you think you've found a bargain check here *first*.

Good luck.

Andy /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Advice for someone looking for a first boat:

1/ Boats are like cars - there's no such thing as the perfect boat for all purposes. All boats are brilliant when you first buy them but become less so as you and they get older
2/ Best way of finding the boat most suuitable for you is to join a club and sail a lot with others on their boats. This is also the best method of getting a cheap mooring.
3/ Boats are very easy to buy but more difficult when the inevitable happens and you want to sell. Help this process by buying a clean modern popular production boat if possible. The older, the rarer, the more "modified" a boat is the more difficult it is to sell when you realise that it isnt really the boat for you after all.
4/ Be realistic about the likely use. Dont be seduced by all the armchair sailors on here into buying a heavy old long keeled steel boat suitable for the southern ocean when you intend to just day sail along the south coast.
5/ Budget anything from 15 to 35% of purchase price to kit out your boat with the basics you didnt notice it didnt have when you didnt properly look over it in the excitement of the chase.
6/ A careful potential owner and his experienced pal will see more of whats wrong with a boat than most surveyors ever will because they have more time to look. So do this pre-survey yourslef so you can highlight what you have spotted to the proper surveyor who will tell you what it means.
7/ There are more sailors looking for crew than crew looking for boats. So if you must have a boat of your own, make sure you can single hand it if necessary.
 
You will be (almost) unique if you get it right and buy "your first and last yacht". Apart from everything else said, your cruising horizons will expand or shrink according to your experiences (and that of your family). After a few seasons you'll discover a) you're really a coastal day-sailor, or b) ready to go off on a blue water voyage, or c) something in between. You'll almost certainly wish at some point that you'd bought a different boat. So just accept that as the reality. The best advice I think is to buy something that is (relatively) easy to re-sell...ie. a popular model in good condition.
 
Excellent suggestions....and thumbs down to all those suggesting you buy something with an eye to resale..sailing is not some dull commercial transaction. Herreshoff (American yacht designer if you haven't heard of him) said buy the best small boat you can afford. I did, eventually. Started in a Bosun dinghy, then went from 19 ft to 33 ft then 26ft.
I remember the same question popping up a while back and agreed with the wag who posted that choosing a boat was like choosing a wife..you need to try at least three before you find the one that suits you best.
 
In the last year I know 2 people who have knowingly bought boats with osmosis at very good prices. Its one way to get what you want at the right price.
 
I thoroughly agree with the sentiments of Misterg. The replies thus far are too negative. I’d agree that you should air on the side of caution regarding weather, not trying to cross the channel until more experienced etc, but you’ll find the boat that fits your criteria, you’ll start slowly, make improvements to your boat, stay on top of the maintenance and have a bloody good time. I taught my self to sail, plunged in at the deep end with a 31 footer and loved every minute of it (still do). The best advice I could give would be get a boat, join a club, invite people out and enjoy.

Good luck,

Mike
 
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The reason for starting out with a larger boat, is that SWMBO is not that keen on being on the water. Especially in a smaller boat.


[/ QUOTE ]Is that experience or trepidation?
I think this is the nub of your decision-making process. If you are imagining she will jump at the chance to go sailing when in fact she isn't going to set foot on your boat, then your up a well-known creek.

I'd sort this out before buying.
Like others say, beg rides on others boats (with wife)
 
I found myself in a very similar situation last year - Thanet based, recent Day Skipper and £10,000 waiting for a 26 footer with views to family cross channel cruising. As the season progressed it became clear that finding the ideal boat and mooring was going to be difficult.

Desperate to get some boat handling experience I bought a cheap (£2000) 20ft trailer-sailer on the Medway and joined a club with cheap tidal moorings. It was the best move I could possibly have made.

My wife and daughter love weekending on the boat and there is plenty to see in the Swale/Medway/Thames area. The club has introduced to me the joys of racing which I hadn't previously considered.

Maybe we'll move up to a bigger boat next year but I suspect we'll charter something for 2 weeks somewhere warm while still enjoy our cheap thrills in the Medway.
 
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