How to begin sailing in UK?

[RunAgroundHard]

No training will cover every eventuality anyway. Going to sea in small boats is a poor choice for people who aren't capable of thinking on their feet.

I agree that it won't cover every eventuality, but "thinking on their feet" can be developed on a good course.

However, developing on the feet thinking is exactly why drills on sail training boats are important. The drill develops a method, which determines a routine and some form of memory and then allows a user to apply alternatives when they have to think on their feet. It is a primary element of developing Command and Control competency, drills and drill outcome evaluation.

A classic example that RYA sea schools have used is the reach, tack, reach, dump speed, to position a boat at a point of interest, anchoring or mooring being typical, sometimes MOB. That gets drilled, students understand manoeuvring and positioning, controlling speed. Introduce strong counter tides and the students can start to evaluate why it is not working and perhaps come up with the alternative solution, or be shown it. Either way, the system develops "thinking on their feet", or it can do, with a good instructor.

For oil and gas installations, standard drills are fundamental to developing the ability to deviate from a standard scenario i.e. thinking on their feet.

 

[Praxinoscope]

There seems to be a percentage of ’forumites’ that are totally scepticle or opposed to the concept of RYA training, and another group that support it, personally I would support RYA training , although I only ever did the shore based corses, I logged up the required number of miles at sea and went for the YM Offshore exam and passed (;perhaps one of the proudest days of my life);, but without the shore based theory courses there is no way I would have passed.
But no-one is compelled to do the YM, for me it was a personal ambition, but if you don’t want to , fine, but I think you are missing out on a really valuable resource.

 

[ProDave]

Don't forget your VHF course if you want to legally use your marine VHF radio.

 

[Adios]

There seems to be a percentage of ’forumites’ that are totally scepticle or opposed to the concept of RYA training, and another group that support it,

Not seen anyone fitting that description. But there is a section of the forum that get very touchy and jump to misreading any suggestion that its not always necessary. Is the RYA a cult?

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Not seen anyone fitting that description. But there is a section of the forum that get very touchy and jump to misreading any suggestion that its not always necessary. Is the RYA a cult?

The only one you have to do is the vhf one.

 

[lustyd]

the RYA a cult?

No, but they've been trying their very best to make it one ?

The only one you have to do is the vhf one.

Technically you don't have to. It would be a weird choice not to, but you are allowed to have a radio on board and use it in an emergency even without the cert. Given the cost compared to any other boaty thing though, I can't see why you wouldn't.

 

[capnsensible]

Not seen anyone fitting that description. But there is a section of the forum that get very touchy and jump to misreading any suggestion that its not always necessary. Is the RYA a cult?

Be happy that the RYA run the best sail training scheme in the world.,

 

[dunedin]

Not seen anyone fitting that description. But there is a section of the forum that get very touchy and jump to misreading any suggestion that its not always necessary. Is the RYA a cult?

It’s not about “RYA”, it’s about the value of enjoying sailing on a training course, and getting competent instruction from an instructor who has at least met certain criteria.
Almost all training is given by private sailing schools and instructors, not the RYA. But the training syllabus and instructor training & examination gives a great framework which has benefitted thousands of boaters, and is highly regarded worldwide. What is not to like?

 

[RunAgroundHard]

It’s not about “RYA”, it’s about the value of enjoying sailing on a training course, and getting competent instruction from an instructor who has at least met certain criteria.
Almost all trading is given by private sailing schools and instructors, not the RYA. But the training syllabus and instructor training & examination gives a great framework which has benefitted thousands of boaters, and is highly regarded worldwide. What is not to like?

Plus the syllabus for the certificates of competence, of which day skipper can be if endorsed for commercial use, are approved independently by the MCA.

 

[Dutch01527]

I would suggest that RYA courses are not the place to start. You do not know yet if sailing on a bigger boat on the sea is right for you. No point paying a lot of money to gain skills you might never need.

I would contact the most local yacht clubs to you and ask if any members need crew or would be willing to take you out. It will probably be free.

I did that for a guy in Cardiff Bay. After 1/2 hour of relatively gentle sailing in the bay, he asked to be taken back. The heeling of the boat did not suit him and he was scared.

Remember that RYA training is not delivered by the RYA. It is delivered by people generally who profit from it. I am a ex Merchany Navy Navigating Officer with over 80,000 miles sea miles and 30 years experience on sailing yachts, I asked a number of RYA training centres if I could jump straight to yacht master practical and self study for the YM theory given my background. The answer was no, I had to do Coastal Theory, Practical, YM theory at their centres at a cost of £1,000’s first. That was driven in my opinion, by profit not competence. I declined and took a ICC instead. Couple of hours refreshed online and £200 practical.

If you fancy a trip to Dartmouth I will take you out for a few days, or even 1/2 hour?, with pleasure. PM me

 

[lustyd]

Of course, this could be a glowing endorsement of the RYA. Their trained instructors make people feel at ease on a boat so the drop out rate is low. Perhaps they had a point, and if you'd done the training first that person would have lasted more than 30 minutes with you on your boat? Perspective is everything.

 

[Dutch01527]

Of course, this could be a glowing endorsement of the RYA. Their trained instructors make people feel at ease on a boat so the drop out rate is low. Perhaps they had a point, and if you'd done the training first that person would have lasted more than 30 minutes with you on your boat? Perspective is everything.

No. We were sailing on the protected waters of Cardiff Bay, basically a big lake. 10/12 knots of wind. I gave a full safety briefing, we wore life jackets and explained up front that heeling was normal and why it was completely safe. I was also very calm, conservative and supportive. No dramas or pressure. The guy just did not like the sensation. I have introduced dozens of people to sailing. This guy was one of two who basically were not suited to the hobby.

In my experience the quality of RYA instructors range from excellent to poor. My only point was that for someone on a limited budget it is not the best start point.

 

[lustyd]

Hmmm I've never met a poor one.

I'll leave it to others with more experience to explain the RYA methods, but I'm pretty sure extensive safety briefings weren't done before we left on any of my courses

 

[RunAgroundHard]

... I asked a number of RYA training centres if I could jump straight to yacht master practical and self study for the YM theory given my background. The answer was no ...

Well they were wrong to tell you that.

You hire an RYA examiner, that is independent of any RYA sea school and be examined to the MCA standard for Yachtmaster Coastal or Yachtmaster Offshore. You can do that on your own boat, provided it meets a minimum criteria. You may have to demonstrate or explain any part of the RYA syllabus.

RYA Training Centres do not exam for certificates of competence (COC), only RYA Examiners.

You can search the RYA web site if you want to understand how the scheme is broken down. For example, you say that it is a lot of money, but start yachting courses are only 2 days, and affordable, designed to see if it is for you.

Your understanding is well out of date and completely wrong when it comes to Yachtmaster COC. You can do a Coastal Skipper practical course, and I am sure you may have found a school to take you, if they thought your small boat handling skills were up to it, rather than waste your money, but that is only a course completion certificate, not a COC. There is no Yachtmaster practical course, never has been, some schools offer Yachtmaster preparation courses, not an RYA recognised course, for the COC, independently examined.

https://www.rya.org.uk/training/courses/start-yachting-course-syc

Your offer to take the OP out is good, well done.

 

[Adios]

I would suggest that RYA courses are not the place to start. You do not know yet if sailing on a bigger boat on the sea is right for you. No point paying a lot of money to gain skills you might never need.

I would contact the most local yacht clubs to you and ask if any members need crew or would be willing to take you out. It will probably be free.

I did that for a guy in Cardiff Bay. After 1/2 hour of relatively gentle sailing in the bay, he asked to be taken back. The heeling of the boat did not suit him and he was scared.

Remember that RYA training is not delivered by the RYA. It is delivered by people generally who profit from it. I am a ex Merchany Navy Navigating Officer with over 80,000 miles sea miles and 30 years experience on sailing yachts, I asked a number of RYA training centres if I could jump straight to yacht master practical and self study for the YM theory given my background. The answer was no, I had to do Coastal Theory, Practical, YM theory at their centres at a cost of £1,000’s first. That was driven in my opinion, by profit not competence. I declined and took a ICC instead. Couple of hours refreshed online and £200 practical.

If you fancy a trip to Dartmouth I will take you out for a few days, or even 1/2 hour?, with pleasure. PM me

ah well now you've said enough to be misunderstood to be casting half an aspersion in the approximate proximity of the RYA.



But I think you were unlucky with the school. To settle an argument on these very hallowed grounds I phoned a school to ask if I can do a YM with no crew. Just me and examiner. And the lady was quite adamant I could. She didn't even offer that I really should do a CC course first. Though I guess that might have come later if i'd taken her up on the offer. Lets face it the economy is nose diving and sailing is a luxury and RYA isn't even compulsory to do the luxury. They'll be more than happy to take your money on your terms soon enough.

 

[Daydream believer]

Remember that RYA training is not delivered by the RYA. It is delivered by people generally who profit from it. I am a ex Merchany Navy Navigating Officer with over 80,000 miles sea miles and 30 years experience on sailing yachts, I asked a number of RYA training centres if I could jump straight to yacht master practical and self study for the YM theory given my background. The answer was no, I had to do Coastal Theory, Practical, YM theory at their centres at a cost of £1,000’s first. That was driven in my opinion, by profit not competence. I declined and took a ICC instead. Couple of hours refreshed online and £200 practical.

A local instructor was perfectly happy to take me for a 1 day assessment on my boat, & tell me if he felt that i was up to taking the YM practical exam straight off. If so he said he would find me a crew (most of my sailing is SH, so I do not have one) & fix me up with an examiner. Unfortunately covid got in the way.
If I feel that I have recovered enough from the after effects of the jab this year I will take him up on the 1 day assessment, then go from there. Although I would point out that he queried why I was bothering. He felt that from my sailing experience it would achieve little. I do have the theory exam.

 

[Adios]

Your understanding is well out of date and completely wrong when it comes to Yachtmaster COC. You can do a Coastal Skipper practical course, and I am sure you may have found a school to take you, if they thought your small boat handling skills were up to it, rather than waste your money, but that is only a course completion certificate, not a COC. There is no Yachtmaster practical course, never has been, some schools offer Yachtmaster preparation courses for the COC,

Did you miss the bit where he said "I am a ex Merchany Navy Navigating Officer with over 80,000 miles sea miles and 30 years experience on sailing yachts". He just needed a ticket to charter or sail his boat around a bit of France probably. I suppose the fervor of people who have done the RYA stuff is sort of a testament to how impressed they were with it.

 

[capnsensible]

ah well now you've said enough to be misunderstood to be casting half an aspersion in the approximate proximity of the RYA.

View attachment 147897

But I think you were unlucky with the school. To settle an argument on these very hallowed grounds I phoned a school to ask if I can do a YM with no crew. Just me and examiner. And the lady was quite adamant I could. She didn't even offer that I really should do a CC course first. Though I guess that might have come later if i'd taken her up on the offer. Lets face it the economy is nose diving and sailing is a luxury and RYA isn't even compulsory to do the luxury. They'll be more than happy to take your money on your terms soon enough.

I'm afraid I don't believe that. Sorry.

 

[Adios]

I'm afraid I don't believe that. Sorry.

I remember.

 

[RunAgroundHard]

Did you miss the bit where he said "I am a ex Merchany Navy Navigating Officer with over 80,000 miles sea miles and 30 years experience on sailing yachts". He just needed a ticket to charter or sail his boat around a bit of France probably. I suppose the fervor of people who have done the RYA stuff is sort of a testament to how impressed they were with it.

Did you miss the context of my reply? The post was full of many errors, which I corrected, and have nothing to do with the ICC. I believe that you have misunderstood.