How Safe are Windows in the Hull
- Thread starter awol
- Start date
RupertW
Well-known member
I keep a close eye out for boat mishaps being reported and draw my risk conclusions from those. Given the sheer volume of similar boats being used for decades now then I can be pretty sure that a risk is imaginary if the problem doesn’t ever happen, and simply negligible if it happens very rarely.
Plenty of other issues keep occurring in these types of boats and those are the ones I keep a close eye (keel attachment damage after heavy grounding, steering system issues, ice maker breaking etc.)
awol
Well-known member
Not so sure about the anchor, though.
lustyd
Well-known member
They lifted it with the sail on! Solent marinas would have made you take it down first even if the boat was sinking!
wully1
Well-known member
boomerangben
Well-known member
My anatomy knowledge is not great but is that boat has a big ar$e, it looks like it needs a hip replacement
Frogmogman
Well-known member
This is nothing to do with hull windows per se, but the issue of the useful life of the adhesives is relevant. This is from the latest PBO
Concerto
Well-known member
Exactly what I said would happen in the future, the bonding will degrade and leak, in post #11. You cannot rely on bonded only windows, they need mechanical fixings as well.
RunAgroundHard
Well-known member
Makes the old alloy frame and glass windows refurbishment a piece of cake in comparison.
Interesting that the window may break when removing due to UV damage, according to the article. I wonder if the plastic glass should not be replaced as a matter of course?
Interesting that the window may break when removing due to UV damage, according to the article. I wonder if the plastic glass should not be replaced as a matter of course?
RivalRedwing
Well-known member
Nothing that a bit of Gaffa Tape cant fix.... er......
Tranona
Well-known member
These are very different from the windows commonly used in topsides. At least give the designers and engineers credit for understanding the issues involved and knowing what they are doing. Of course there may well be errors somewhere, but for all the 170 odd posts on this thread nobody has come up with any evidence of systemic problems with hull windows - just a couple of incidents for which there is insufficient information to form any conclusions.
Frogmogman
Well-known member
The rear windows of the fabulous Morgan Aeromax started out as just bonded. After a few had popped out at high speed, they recalled them and added mechanical fixings.
boomerangben
Well-known member
I get what you are saying and agree that data is needed before conclusions drawn.
But do you not wonder if what we are seeing now is the start of that stream of data? Perhaps as the issue becomes more widely known, those that had thought their window issues were are one off are now seeing others have similar problems and thus reporting their own experience? We must not be hasty in demonising hull windows, but we need to be open to a trickle of data that might become more significant as designs get older. And as the article points out, if you are going to drop a big chunk of hard earned savings or commit to a chunk of finance on a second/third hand boat, you want to know if the windows will keep you dry and solvent.
I agree that hull designers will know what they are doing. But what is their brief? Design for a life of x years? or maybe the designers specified an adhesive maintenance/replacement cycle that the marketing department omitted in the documentation?
In short, is this a thin end of a wedge? If so, threads and articles are important in generating the data you desire
Aja
Well-known member
There would be a good chance of the 'plastic glass' - I'm assuming you mean Plexiglass (Acrylic) - being damaged on removal therefore I would assume that anyone considering re-bedding windows of this size/type would automatically replace old acrylic with new, hence the original problem of getting acrylic formed to the original spec.
RunAgroundHard
Well-known member
I mean plastic glass.
The article suggests that plastic glass has also deteriorated due to UV but if one is careful it can be reused. Why would anyone want to use a material that has deteriorated. That’s the point.
Of course the amount of deterioration may be negligible.
The brand of plastic glass below offer a 30 year guarantee against UV damage. I assume that resisting degradation of the light transmitting properties, implies that the brittleness doesn’t change.
UV Resistance
Is the article wrong or the plastic used by the builder more susceptible to UV damage? Anyway a moot point, if it gets broken, it’s an expensive hassle.
Tranona
Well-known member
You may be right. However the product development process often means that new ideas, mostly borrowed from elsewhere, first appear in custom builds where the buyer is prepared to take risks. If the concept is attractive, and hull windows clearly are to new boat buyers then the idea gets refined and trickles down to production builders. They generally use the same designers who design custom builds so the knowledge and experience is already there. It must be well proven before such builders adopt new features because their business model is based on not needing significant post sale support.
The example of the 42DS is really not relevant to hull windows for all sorts of reasons, some of which are obvious just looking at them and the account of the issues that arise with age. Even then several hundred boats of this style were built, most over 20 years ago and the fact that he was not able to find a ready supply of replacements suggests there has not been a high rate of failure.
I agree, it is important that these problems are reported, however this forum is really not a good place to get reliable data given the tiny number of members and in a wider sense the UK now being a bit of a backwater in the yachting world, particularly in relation to boats built in recent years. How many contributors to this thread have any real life experience, particularly as owners of modern boats with hull windows?
As you see the opening post was from an owner of a 40 year old boat with a known aversion to anything boat wise built since then. He rightly posed the question of safety, but the majority of subsequent posts are negative about the idea but nobody has been able to offer any credible evidence of a real issue, st the couple of examples that do indeed raise unanswered questions. I have actually owned two modern boats with windows in the hull, one older style framed type bedded and fastened and the second the now common glued only. Neither type gave any problems. For completeness I also owned a traditional wooden boat with portholes in the hull (nothing new!) which did need rebedding because the old style sealant from the 60s failed.
lustyd
Well-known member
Yes, of course it is. That doesn’t indicate a design issue though it demonstrates how poor owners are at maintenance.
The fact that we’ve seen essentially zero failures after decades demonstrates that we don’t need mechanical fixings. Show me a failure within the deign life of the adhesive and then maybe we can talk design issues. Whether mechanically fixed or not the adhesive sealant needs replacing regularly or water will enter the boat. I imagine the reported failures had leaked before total failure but we’ll never know.
Aja
Well-known member
I had to Google "plastic glass" as I was unfamiliar with the term. The link you give send you to 'Plexiglas' which is a trade name. Plexiglas manufacture many different cast materials. What I believe you are linking to would be cast acrylic. There is no glass involved in the material, other than used possibly in the cast process.
lustyd
Well-known member
And yet most bonded hull windows actually are made of glass as shown in the video I posted ages ago in the thread. Plastic is used for roof lights
Pye_End
Well-known member
Isn't that the reason for this thread - a missing hull window, 10 years old, and a boat half full of water?