How Safe are Windows in the Hull

[Tranona]

I think you have an optimistic view of how production boatbuilders solve warranty issues.

Talk to, for example, Leopard catamaran owners about their window security and how this issue has been handled by the factory. This is just an example.

I am aware of the Leopard warranty problems. However the windows and hatches in question were not bonded in (probably a good thing!) but Lewmar hatches that were not properly installed.

Warranty from production builders is often a problem because of their business model of selling through dealers who are often not well resourced. The system works reasonably well for most because the boats are usually well put together. However the shift away from smaller, simpler boats to the current offerings which include lots of poorly developed systems, particularly on the domestic side has strained the system. I have bought 2 new boats from production builders and both were largely trouble free and the minor issues were not with the builder's part but the equipment suppliers, all of which supply just about every builder.

 

[Tranona]

But this isn’t correct for all hull windows and is quite an assumption / generalisation. For instance Hanse’s hull ports are made by Lewmar and have an inner frame / flange. They are both glued and mechanically fixed to the hull. As a long time lurker on their owners forum I dread to think how many posts I’ve read over the years but only one of them concerned a leaking hull port and that was in a new boat.

Same with Bavaria, almost no reports on forums about glued in windows, but plenty about leaking conventional hatches from Lewmar, Rutgerson and Gebo. However, most of these are on 20+ year old boats and not unique to Bavaria.

 

[RunAgroundHard]

There are two points coming out of this thread for me.

One is the limited life of plastics, sealants and adhesives. Doubtless affected by the environment and use. …

I think that UV degradation of window material is not a given. I think the claim in the article would need to be substantiated.

Many will be aware of hatch plastic crazing. Are the windows with failed sealing like that? There are UV stable plastics used in windows.

Perhaps the issue is just adhesive sealant and methods will be developed to remove the window at low risk of damage so it can be resealed.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

I think that UV degradation of window material is not a given. I think the claim in the article would need to be substantiated.

Many will be aware of hatch plastic crazing. Are the windows with failed sealing like that? There are UV stable plastics used in windows.

Perhaps the issue is just adhesive sealant and methods will be developed to remove the window at low risk of damage so it can be resealed.

You’d think that a shaped blade could be inserted. Whether it’s just sharp, or fits a multi tool. But a custom shape to fit the window concerned. I’d make one if faced with the problem.

 

[lustyd]

You’d think that a shaped blade could be inserted. Whether it’s just sharp, or fits a multi tool. But a custom shape to fit the window concerned. I’d make one if faced with the problem.

Pros use a mutitool with spatula attachment to get in there, then essentially a cheese wire to pull around and separate the glass/plastic. Once out the sealant can be scraped as usual. Gone with the Wynns showed all this on their old boat.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Pros use a mutitool with spatula attachment to get in there, then essentially a cheese wire to pull around and separate the glass/plastic. Once out the sealant can be scraped as usual. Gone with the Wynns showed all this on their old boat.

So whilst it might be a bit of a pain in the ass, it’s just another scheduled task, like replacing your standing rigging.

 

[mjcoon]

Facebook has just presented me with this little clip: www.facebook.com/reel...

 

[lustyd]

Facebook has just presented me with this little clip: www.facebook.com/reel...

It’ll never catch on. Those people were clearly miserable

 

[Tranona]

Reminds me of an eventful crossing from Cherbourg to Poole many years ago in a lower cabin in the recently refurbished Rozelle in a force 9. Lying in the bunk watching the water rush by the large window and often totally submerged as the ship rolled.

 

[TSB240]

I am in the process of replacing 24 year old bonded in acrylic windows. None of these are in hull but it was an optional extra.
None need replacing due to water leaks. UV degradation not mechanical cracks have reduced the clarity to an undesirable but not unsafe over.
I have researched the bonding in mechanism and found that Beneteau originally used a combination of foam tape, primers, two part bonding, UV protective paint and further edge sealing with a flexible compound. My acrylic is bent around and not held by any mechanical frame or fastener.
I can vouch for the original bond and seal. Removing and resealing is not likely to be routine. Replacement

 

[Baggywrinkle]

Same with Bavaria, almost no reports on forums about glued in windows, but plenty about leaking conventional hatches from Lewmar, Rutgerson and Gebo. However, most of these are on 20+ year old boats and not unique to Bavaria.

Not entirely true ... I have a friend with a Bav 37 Cruiser from 2015 ... the side windows are two pieces and where they meet there is a mastic filler ... this has degraded/detatched and the windows are leaking. Would not post this if I did not have first-hand experience from borrowing the boat for a holiday this year. Problem is described in the Bav forums. Note: These are the cabin top windows, not the hull windows.

Asylum.

This is a known fault on the Bavaria.
The windows are beaded on a mastic sealant bead and the perimeter is filled. During this process Bavaria in their wisdom hold the window in position with a small block screwed into the moulding between that window and the next window. If you look from the outside you will see that there is a joint of mastic about 20-25mm wide between the two windows. This joint is obscured from view internally by the moulding in the centre right of your photo.
The problem arises because Bavaria do not back fill the gel coat from the screw hole with gel, they simply mastic over it. As the windows and the boat deck expand and contract at slightly different rates (one being dark acrylic and the other white GRP) the mastic is pulled in 3 directions.
If you check the technical data on the mastic you will see that this is a “No No!” There should be a “Bond breaker” in the gap on top of the GRP. (And the hole should have been filled too!)
If you look carefully at this joint from the outside you will find that somewhere around the vertical joint, the mastic has de-laminated from the edge of the window. But It, still looks ok. Water gets through this gap and behind the vertical joint because that’s lost its grip too. The water then tracks down the inside and through the hole behind the pillar moulding in the ceiling where you can’t see it.
Carefully cut the mastic out at this vertical joint, clean the GRP and window edges toughly. Fill the hole in the GRP with gel coat. Put bond breaker tape in the gap over the GRP. Prime the edges of the window with the correct sealant primer (but not the bond breaker). Mask the widow edges and deck where the sealant should not go and prime these areas too. Apply the mastic sealant and trowel the surface flush with the window.
The mastic will not bond properly if you do prime it or it is pulled in more than one plane.

Hope this helps.

Ant.

2014 Bavaria C37 leaking window, maybe

 

[Tranona]

Not entirely true ... I have a friend with a Bav 37 Cruiser from 2015 ... the side windows are two pieces and where they meet there is a mastic filler ... this has degraded/detatched and the windows are leaking. Would not post this if I did not have first-hand experience from borrowing the boat for a holiday this year. Problem is described in the Bav forums. Note: These are the cabin top windows, not the hull windows.



2014 Bavaria C37 leaking window, maybe

Yes, I followed that one - hence my wording "almost no reports". Very relevant to me at the time as I had a 2015 33 with similar windows, but one piece, not 2. I understand from Clipper at the time that they only had one boat in the UK with the problem.

 

[capnsensible]

Now that's what I call Windows....

 

[KevinV]

Now that's what I call Windows....

View attachment 169179

Lovely boat I'm sure, but that uneven spacing would annoy me every time I saw it

 

[Wansworth]

Can you run out canons?

 

[capnsensible]

Can you run out canons?

There was another one fwd of that one with bigger windows in the Hull but my photography on my cheap phone plus where the sun was means the result wasn't worth posting. Big tho.

 

[noelex]

I am reminded of the story of a large marine expedition boat that was designed for charter in Australia. The designer specified a large watertight area in the bow with port lights underwater primarily so guests could appreciate and watch dolphins surfing the bow wave.

The underwater port lights were rejected by the authorities even though they were in a seperate waterproof area. However, the designer ultimately won by pointing out the regulation specified any port light had to be a minimum of 1m from the waterline (when situated in a waterproof area).

The obvious intention was that the port light needed to be 1m above the waterline, but since this was not specifically spelled out in regulations the designer argued a port light 1m BELOW the waterline also met the requirements .

 

[snowleopard]

I built windows into the hulls of my cat, below the bridge deck and around 25 cm above the waterline. They were to provide emergency exits in the event of a capsize. I used Lewmar deck hatches.

Two points:

I built a lip in front of the forward edge of the hatches to deflect any fast-moving water which might hit the seal of the hatch.

We had an iron rule that the hatches must be closed but not locked at sea (so that we could open them from outside in the event of disaster).

 

[Baggywrinkle]

Looks like hull windows do breach if not careful .....

 

[mjcoon]

Looks like hull windows do breach if not careful .....

View attachment 169306

I suppose painting "No Entry" signs on each would spoil the look...