How Safe are Windows in the Hull

[Boathook]

All I'm going to say on the subject of brass fittings is that part of my out of the water maintenance is a good welt on the through hulls and valves with a rubber mallet.

View attachment 167457

That wasn't even a welt with a mallet, just gentle pressure on a spanner
The handle came off in my hand when I tried, not very hard, to move it.

From your boat ?

 

[Stemar]

Yes. We bought her knowing there was a fair bit of, err, deferred maintenance, and paid an appropriate price.

Little things like the original standing rigging from 1984, most of the leccy not working, etc. That was the only seacock in that state; as soon as I saw it I knew it had to go, and I'd better not touch until I'm out of the water. The others were more or less OK, though I've got another where the ball valve's seized, so that's going to get a bit of kill or cure maintenance this winter as we're out of the water again.

Buying a project can make sense. It won't save you any money, but if it allows me to pay cash and spread the costs out so they come from petty cash rather than knocking a hole in savings, allowing me to get out on the water in the meantime, that works for me. The other bonus is that I know how most stuff works because I installed it.

 

[Bobc]

It is true that glued-in hull windows are a relatively new thing, and so we don't know how the adhesive stands up over time, but I remember looking at a number of Beneteau 32s5 and 35s5 models around 1999 (so they were about 10-12 years old back then), and they had glued-in deck windows which were moulded. Almost without exception, they all had silicone gob around them where they had been leaking.

I also see regularly posts on forums and Social about deck windows leaking, even on boats less than 10 years old, which is usually as a result of flexing.

I just feel that hull windows are a weak-point that you just don't need to have. They are not necessary and just add to the potential for sinking.

 

[dunedin]

I just feel that hull windows are a weak-point that you just don't need to have. They are not necessary and just add to the potential for sinking.

Of course that applies to a lot of things - a sea toilet is not essential, and creates at least two extra holes in the hull. A second heads is even more unnecessary. Coachroof windows are unnecessary. Take to logical extreme and a yacht is unnecessary.

But modest sized hull windows do add light - and more importantly allow you to see some of the surroundings when at anchor or on a mooring buoy.

It’s up to the priorities of the people actually buying new boats.

 

[Bobc]

Of course that applies to a lot of things - a sea toilet is not essential, and creates at least two extra holes in the hull. A second heads is even more unnecessary. Coachroof windows are unnecessary. Take to logical extreme and a yacht is unnecessary.

But modest sized hull windows do add light - and more importantly allow you to see some of the surroundings when at anchor or on a mooring buoy.

It’s up to the priorities of the people actually buying new boats.

If everyone was the same, it would be a very boring world.

 

[noelex]

I think we need to distinguish between windows in the hull and windows in the superstructure. Windows in the hull, particularly large windows near the waterline that may be submerged when the yacht heels or waves strike the hull, are of particular concern.

These different window types often use a similar method of construction, but the consequences of failure are quite different.

 

[lustyd]

I think we need to distinguish between windows in the hull and windows in the superstructure. Windows in the hull, particularly large windows near the waterline that may be submerged when the yacht heels or waves strike the hull, are of particular concern.

These different window types often use a similar method of construction, but the consequences of failure are quite different.

As pointed out earlier in the thread though, windows in modern high sided hulls are less likely to be submerged than the coachroof windows in older designs so your point is entirely moot.

 

[noelex]

As pointed out earlier in the thread though, windows in modern high sided hulls are less likely to be submerged than the coachroof windows in older designs so your point is entirely moot.

I don’t agree. This photo is the first one featured on the Salona webpage (the manufacturer of the yacht in question).

These hull windows are much closer to the waterline than any that would be installed on the superstructure of comparable sized older boat.

This shows how close to the waterline manufacturers are prepared to install windows, although on the plus side these windows are not as large as some manufacturers use.

 

[lustyd]

I think you may be underestimating how high the deck is there. That’s a very large boat.

 

[noelex]

Here is another photo from the manufacturer’s website. Smooth water, light wind. Perfect conditions.

Boats of a similar size with windows confined to the superstructure, even if they had lower freeboard would have any windows well above the waterline in similar conditions.

The consequences of a breach of these windows close to waterline are more serious than a breach of windows in the superstructure, particularly in a more serious sea state.

 

[Wansworth]

Keep some ply bits and some 4 inch nails and some tar aboard………..I brought up this subject and this boat over a year ago mainly in reference to the bikini clad crew,supposedly the wife of the chap on the wheel

 

[Snowgoose-1]

The problem of not enough light seems to get worse the bigger the yacht gets. Plus also the trend of lower and smaller style coach roofs like Audi cars. Older style yachts having much longer and higher coach roofs. Plus more reinforced deck hatches like the Houdini range. As mentioned, hull windows seem to be working out OK if not too big or too low. Thickness of topsides lay up perhaps also has a bearing on flexing.

 

[Neeves]

We, members on YBW, are a vocal lot - and we buy and use a variety of yachts. I really don'r recall any member complain of any of their windows, on new yachts. Big windows are a growing trend but have been around now for a number of years. Complaints are 'exclusively' on failures of old windows on old yachts and this complaints are of crazing and leaks round the window frames. There would be a rash of posts if windows on new yachts, like the one Noelex has posted, failed.

Again - the windows on the yacht Noelex has posted are not as large as they seem - there will be a very large overlap and the windows are usually applied from the 'outside'. You need to look at the engineering (as I illustrate in our cat see earlier) - not some grainy picture. There is a complete lack of detail on any of the engineering in this thread - its all about increasing the emotive fear factor.

The only exception might be Lagoons. But the major issues there is bulkheads - if the windows are an issue - its minor, compared to the bulkhead.

Interestingly old yachts, and maybe new yachts, had aluminium frames and a minimum of overlap and many who were blue water sailors would carry ply storm covers - fear of windows failing is hardly new (and the carrying of storm boards so common - old windows must have failed. The new big windows have a much greater overlap and enjoy the benefit of better adhesives.

Jonathan

 

[Neeves]

I'm sure it has all been said - but car windows, front and rear, are held in by adhesive and the windows are huge. I do appreciate that car's windows do not enjoy buffeting by monster seas (though some may suffer from some flexing). However cars that I see that have suffered some stress, write offs having hit a tree, tend to have attached but smashed windows - the adhesives seen fine (and the overlap on windscreen is but a fraction of that of Josepheline's smaller windows).

Properly engineered - don't worry.

Jonathan

 

[lustyd]

attached but smashed windows

The video I posted earlier in the thread shows the glass used in hull windows and is similar laminated toughened glass designed for the job.

 

[boomerangben]

In summary, there is little data to indicate that hull windows are particularly susceptible to failure, deck windows do leak and need maintenance in time, there have been two high profile incidents in UK waters within the past couple of years of hull windows resulting in mayday calls (one requiring a rescue that earned their rescuers a prestigious award), no ( to my knowledge) instance of a deck window failure leading to a similar situation. The bottom line is this: check your windows, wherever they maybe and if they leak, get them properly fixed. And if you don’t know what you’re looking for when inspecting glued in windows (I don’t) get someone who does.

 

[lustyd]

And if you don’t know what you’re looking for when inspecting glued in windows

Movement, cracking, residue or powder would all indicate failing sealant, it's pretty obvious. In any case I'd suggest that a 10 year removal and refitting would probably be appropriate which most will ignore but hopefully would result in 20 year refitting at the very latest. Adhesive sealant is a consumable item and should be treated as such, same as rigging or engine oil.

 

[Bobc]

In summary, there is little data to indicate that hull windows are particularly susceptible to failure, deck windows do leak and need maintenance in time, there have been two high profile incidents in UK waters within the past couple of years of hull windows resulting in mayday calls (one requiring a rescue that earned their rescuers a prestigious award), no ( to my knowledge) instance of a deck window failure leading to a similar situation. The bottom line is this: check your windows, wherever they maybe and if they leak, get them properly fixed. And if you don’t know what you’re looking for when inspecting glued in windows (I don’t) get someone who does.

Some people will be comfortable with them, and others won't. Everyone needs to make their own decision based on their opinion and risk apetite.

 

[Snowgoose-1]

I expect there were issues when gun ports were introduced but found ways of minimising the risks. There doesn't seem to be much new in sailing sometimes.

 

[boomerangben]

As pointed out earlier in the thread though, windows in modern high sided hulls are less likely to be submerged than the coachroof windows in older designs so your point is entirely moot.

Having just seen a review in Sailing Today (December) of a new J45 with three hull windows awash in moderate conditions, I think you might be over generalising perhaps?