How much to have a yard maintain a 35 foot 'classic?

[NealB]

Yes...I know....how long is a piece of string?

But any thoughts?

I've seen a beautiful 35 foot Laurent Giles design, built late 1950's.....she's just lovely.

For me to keep her, I'd require a yard to look after her (I don't have the time, and, dare I admit it on this forum, I just don't enjoy wooden boat maintenance....been there, done that....would rather be sailing).

She's mahogany above the waterline, teak below, bronze fastened, with a lead keel. Oh yes....wooden spars, too.

She's been pampered, wintered in a shed, and yard maintained all her life. She looks to be in quite outstanding condition.

She'd be kept on the East Coast.

I'd hate to be the one who let her deteriorate.

Of course, I'll be speaking to local yards, but would be interested to hear the (maybe wild?) guesses of this esteemed panel!

Thanks.

 

[chinita]

Wow! How very tempting!

I do not have a clue as I do all my maintenance. Of course, you know that the best thing is to buy a good 'un in the first place. Sounds like this might be a good 'un.

Is there any mileage in approaching the yard who currently maintain her? I would imagine that they would be keen to keep up the work.

Just a thought.

 

[NealB]

Wow! How very tempting!

I do not have a clue as I do all my maintenance. Of course, you know that the best thing is to buy a good 'un in the first place. Sounds like this might be a good 'un.

Is there any mileage in approaching the yard who currently maintain her? I would imagine that they would be keen to keep up the work.

Just a thought.

Oh yes....so, SOOOO tempting!! I've got her as 'wallpaper' on both my laptop and my desktop....I keep looking at the broker's details! It's like being in love for the first time... keep imagining sailing along in perfect conditions, with the sun glinting off all that beautiful brightwork, and knowing that everyone within sight will just be thinking "Wow!!".

Good idea to speak to the current yard, first, of course.

Incidentally, I really do wish I had a talent for woodwork and that I enjoyed it....it's a skill I really admire in others.

I remember woodwork class at school in the mid 60's....I'd been really excitedly looking forward to the first lesson....then spent a whole miserable term, in total exasperation, just trying to plane up a face side and face edge, and ended up with a (lopsided) matchstick. Kim Lambert, meanwhile, had finished a beautiful pencil case by the end of the second double lesson (ah well.....I could run faster than him....we all have something we can do well, I guess!).

 

[Tranona]

Probably a lot less than you think if it is already up together. The trick is to look after it in the winter so investment in a good cover or even better inside storage will pay off. Have a look at how well Scandinavian wooden boats last - because they are under cover 6 months a year.

If you take it over a 10 year period then the overall cost (maintenance and depreciation) is likely to be comparable with running a new boat of similar size. The unknowns of course such as major structural work, rig or new engine can upset the economics so you need a good survey at the start to identify the potential for major expenditure.

You need to be realistic about values. Not a good idea to spend up to your capital limit and then try to run the boat on a shoestring as once you let it slip it can cost a fortune to get it back.

 

[NealB]

Probably a lot less than you think if it is already up together. The trick is to look after it in the winter so investment in a good cover or even better inside storage will pay off. Have a look at how well Scandinavian wooden boats last - because they are under cover 6 months a year.

If you take it over a 10 year period then the overall cost (maintenance and depreciation) is likely to be comparable with running a new boat of similar size. The unknowns of course such as major structural work, rig or new engine can upset the economics so you need a good survey at the start to identify the potential for major expenditure.

You need to be realistic about values. Not a good idea to spend up to your capital limit and then try to run the boat on a shoestring as once you let it slip it can cost a fortune to get it back.

All sound comments, I think..thanks.

She's such a beauty (in all respects: design, craftsmanship, pedigree, materials, maintenance, etc), that I'd only consider an offer if I'm certain I can keep her in the style to which she is accustomed.... ie winter in a shed, all jobs done properly, as and when needed.

You're absolutely right, if I were to let that regime slip, she could get very expensive indeed to put right again.......not to mention the shame and guilt!

 

[NealB]

OK...no guesses, so far (early yet, I know).........

I'm thinking an average budget of somewhere around £2000 to £3000 pa should cope with routine maintenance and winter in a shed......more in years when paint and brightwork need more than a touch up, hopefully less in other years.

Does that sound vaguely realistic-ish)... or am I just dreaming?

 

[Poignard]

OK...no guesses, so far (early yet, I know).........

I'm thinking an average budget of somewhere around £2000 to £3000 pa should cope with routine maintenance and winter in a shed......more in years when paint and brightwork need more than a touch up, hopefully less in other years.

Does that sound vaguely realistic-ish)... or am I just dreaming?

Give him a shake, somebody!

 

[burgundyben]

OK...no guesses, so far (early yet, I know).........

I'm thinking an average budget of somewhere around £2000 to £3000 pa should cope with routine maintenance and winter in a shed......more in years when paint and brightwork need more than a touch up, hopefully less in other years.

Does that sound vaguely realistic-ish)... or am I just dreaming?

I think it depends very much on how nice yu wish to keep her.

I suspect keeping her tip top will be a lot more than the £££s you mention.

Say its £50 and hour inc vat, is that cheap on the east coast? I dunno, but, at that rate its a weeks work for £2k, doesnt sound much to me.

A complete repaint every few years is going to be big shillings too.

 

[Seajet]

Neal B,

IF you can afford to buy her and give maintenance a good shot, I'm sure that's all she would ask.

Remember the story of the sailor who takes his accountant chum for a sail...

Accountant: " so, you pay X thusands for a boat you can only at best use 2 days a week "

Sailor : " No, I use her 7 days a week "

Accountant : " How so ? "

Sailor : " 2 days a week I sail her, the rest of the time I dream of her "

You already dream of her Neal, and sound like you would do her proud;
instead of thinking 'if only' the rest of your sailing career, and quite possibly watching her go downhill in the hands of someone less motivated...go and grab her !

 

[xtiffer]

It used to be said that the maintenance cost per annum was 10%
of the yacht value. I now hear that revised to 20%.
I have a 56' Hoek sloop that I do the varnish work on twice a year.
Lots of work for me to put on 2 coats each time and not much change out of €4,000 for the owner.
Then start thinking of everything else.
If you have the money and the passion then do it. People like me need owners like you.
Cheers,
Chris

 

[Bav34]

South coast yard quote for simply polishing and antifouling a 34' yacht:

Thanks for your email via our web site.

The cost of lifting out, scrubbing off , blocking down and relaunching is £345.

The approximate cost to clean and polish topsides is £300. 00

To wet and dry hull, mask up waterline and antifoul hull. Labour only £135. 00

All figures are exclusive of VAT

We trust the above figures are of interest to you and look forward to hearing from you again.

They weren't. They didn't.

 

[Seajet]

Then again a decent person to get along with will have chums ( like me ) who are happy to do antifouling in return for a few trips.

As an owner myself ( relatively modern grp boat, but with a fair bit of exterior teak ) I have no hesitation getting crew who have come on a free holiday cruise to do some work on the exterior woodwork on lazy afternoons !

Also, Neal you mention difficulty with carpentry / wood work; after doing reasonably well in metal working at school - before anyone says anything, a lot of other academic subjects too; the only thing I have in common with Paul Merton is among my O levels there's one for metalwork !

I intially trained as a fighter aircraft fitter but was a misfit and thought the manual skills required beyond me ( I was very lucky as it turned out, I trained instead on aircraft cameras & aerial photography ) but now I find I enjoy metalwork and can make a pretty good go of it; maybe because I'm working for myself not an idiot instructor.

You may well find this boat motivates wood working skills you don't realise you have !

 

[Sequoiah1]

Oh yes....so, SOOOO tempting!! I've got her as 'wallpaper' on both my laptop and my desktop....I keep looking at the broker's details! It's like being in love for the first time... keep imagining sailing along in perfect conditions, with the sun glinting off all that beautiful brightwork, and knowing that everyone within sight will just be thinking "Wow!!".

Good idea to speak to the current yard, first, of course.

Incidentally, I really do wish I had a talent for woodwork and that I enjoyed it....it's a skill I really admire in others.

I remember woodwork class at school in the mid 60's....I'd been really excitedly looking forward to the first lesson....then spent a whole miserable term, in total exasperation, just trying to plane up a face side and face edge, and ended up with a (lopsided) matchstick. Kim Lambert, meanwhile, had finished a beautiful pencil case by the end of the second double lesson (ah well.....I could run faster than him....we all have something we can do well, I guess!).

Based off figures we have recently, and this is South devon so no idea how the costs transfer to your neck of the woods.............
38' S&S Sloop per year
Undercover winter storage with permanent unlimited shore power including lift out and in and unstep and stepping of mast inc vat £2800
Two coats of varnish to brightwork including all prep and materials £800 (no vat) add an extra £500 for those little paint touch up jobs inside and out.
Updating hardware per year (approx) £2000 (not including electronics) this is just part of the ongoing upgrade program.
Rigging and sail work £1000 (ex vat) incudes valeting and small repairs, replacement of the odd line and bits and pieces. there usually a new sail added evry couple of years and we are due to replace the mainsail and get a small heavy weather spinnaker next year no change from £4000.00
Antifouling £250

Other jobs. Full topside re paint including prep, staging and all those little extras that add up £5000.00 (no Vat) Its a mirror finish........

and the costs go on and on and on..............
Teak deck replacement
hot water system
electronics

 

[NealB]

Sequoiah1...

Many thanks for your openness....very helpful indeed.

I am looking, at the moment, at getting a realistic budget for regular, routine maintenance only....upgrades are another matter altogether.

I've spoken to the yard who have been looking after her for the last few years, who very helpfully dug out the invoices for the last four winters. I am quite pleasantly surprised to see that my £2k - £3k pa looks pretty much right, based on those.

Obviously, I need to get a much clearer view before proceeding!

Thanks again.

 

[chinita]

With a good survey and a history of those, pretty reasonable, storage and maintenance costs I would be tempted to go for it.

Think of the pride of ownership!

 

[NealB]

Then again a decent person to get along with will have chums ( like me ) who are happy to do antifouling in return for a few trips.

As an owner myself ( relatively modern grp boat, but with a fair bit of exterior teak ) I have no hesitation getting crew who have come on a free holiday cruise to do some work on the exterior woodwork on lazy afternoons !

Also, Neal you mention difficulty with carpentry / wood work; after doing reasonably well in metal working at school - before anyone says anything, a lot of other academic subjects too; the only thing I have in common with Paul Merton is among my O levels there's one for metalwork !

I intially trained as a fighter aircraft fitter but was a misfit and thought the manual skills required beyond me ( I was very lucky as it turned out, I trained instead on aircraft cameras & aerial photography ) but now I find I enjoy metalwork and can make a pretty good go of it; maybe because I'm working for myself not an idiot instructor.

You may well find this boat motivates wood working skills you don't realise you have !

Seajet....many thanks for your encouraging words (and the offer to come and do the antifouling.....which did not escape my notice...there's lots of witnesses!).

I'm also a big Oliver Lee fan....I used to race Squibs, many years ago.

 

[NealB]

With a good survey and a history of those, pretty reasonable, storage and maintenance costs I would be tempted to go for it.

Think of the pride of ownership!

I'm beginning to think that this particular forum is a VERY dangerous place!!

 

[Lyulph Hesling]

The old saying about yachts sums it up: "If you need to ask the price; you can't afford it"!

Even more so if you want someone else to paint, varnish and antifoul.

 

[NealB]

The old saying about yachts sums it up: "If you need to ask the price; you can't afford it"!

I thought that was the 'advice' given to those thinking of buying a Rolls Royce....isn't the equivalent about boats being that they are like standing under a shower tearing up pound notes?

Both rather unhelpful advice, really, unless you're surname is Branson, Buffet or Berlosconi (mine begins with the right letter, but that's all we have in common).........

 

[DownWest]

I think the reference was to racing sailing yachts, and it was £5 notes. Someone else (Max Aitkin?) used it it, but said they doen't make notes of big enough value when one races power boats. And that was in the 60s....