How many of you drive Morris 1000s or Mk1 Cortinas?

[jonjo]

Well it is time for me to bow out of this debate and do some work. I will just give three examples that illustrate the cost of MAB ownership and support both sides of the argument.

Case 1: 35 year old Westerly 31.
The boat has been in the same family for 35 years, father & son have a wealth of boat ownership expertise between them. The boat is in concourse condition (outwardly) and sprouts little modern yachting gadgetry. Last year the owner tackled a tedious once in 20 year job that effectively robbed him of a season’s sailing. This boat demonstrates that MAB ownership can be far cheaper than new AWB ownership.

Case 2: 25 year old Westerly 36.
One owner from new. During a 90 minute visit aboard for a glass of wine and chat this summer I clocked up £16k of expenditure on major items over the past 3 years. New engine, new drive chain after underwater prop collision, new opening saloon windows all round, pro upgrade to the battery compartment with a new high amp wiring loom.

Case 3: 22 year old Westerly.
New entrant to yacht ownership. On the surface the boat looks like a good example and probably cost £35k. Since I reckon the owner has spent £15k minimum on big ticket items including an £8k deep peel osmosis job, new saloon windows all round, a major upgrade to the electronics and an extra mid season haul out to fix a prop shaft leak. Over the next 5 years the working sails will need to be replaced and the engine is original.

New arrivals to yachting are not been told the truth about the cost of owning a 20+ year old yacht. Yacht magazines collude in the status quo because they have to flatter their existing readership when writing reviews of older yachts. The only person who honestly presents the ugly financial/diy side of MAB ownership is Dick Durham in his regular YM column.

 

[MarkG]

[ QUOTE ]
Blimey, you can really tell the season's nearly over!

Why as a comunity does the sailing world always seem to come up with the most ways imaginable to categorise people?
MAB, AWB, motorsailer, racing boat, motor boat, PWC.

It's all about being on the water, who really cares what the other bloke is sailing? If you don't like boat of type x, then vote with your wallet and don't buy it!

Everybody has reasons for buying the boat they did. If you see a type of boat you don't like sailing past, just relax and have another beer, it'll be gone soon.

[/ QUOTE ]

Very true...I wish to associate myself with the above...

 

[Twister_Ken]

Agreed, except PWCs which ARE owned by creatures from another planet.

 

[halcyon]

Why do you have to re-rig a 12 year old boat ? how many on the forum with second yachts have replaced the mast ? standing rig is just a service item.

Reading the forum most AWB's do not go out above a F5 or 6, what would thay do in F8,9,10 in mid Atlantic? Halcyon Dreams was over 20 years old, with original mast, when she did her first trans-Atlantic, sailed back, and the mast is still there, no comment from insurance as yet.

There are comments about how crap a Fulmar is, yet Westerly Sea School ran two fleets of them, I used them as a long term test bed for the switch panels we supplied Wersterly. Those boats were out 6 days a week, 50 weeks a year in all weather in the Channel, we once estimated they each had sailed round the world a number of times. They never fell apart, they were sold on, and many owners do not know what there pride and joy went through. But those boats are still sailing, I was on one this year, and the interior is still respectable, and the rig is still the original.

Why do we make these assumsions on costs to justify buying a new boat, it's your money, you spend how you want.

Brian

 

[Guest]

Re-rig is generally meant to mean the wires, terminals and any suspect stainless attachments, like through-deck chain plates.

I also meant "12 year life of NEW RIGGING to the 12 year life ON an old boat" Sorry.

Just for interest: "Last year the owner tackled a tedious once in 20 year job that effectively robbed him of a season’s sailing."

What on earth takes a whole season, that only needs to be done every 20 years, and can not be done in winter? Curious.

 

[Twister_Ken]

"What on earth takes a whole season, that only needs to be done every 20 years, and can not be done in winter? "

Replacing a teak deck!!!

(Don't) ask me for details.

 

[agards]

May I throw another angle into this debate? This is a question I have been struggling with for about a year now. I am planning to retire and live aboard and trying to decide the best craft to go with. I sail with 4 different yacht owners all of whom are devote heavy displacement disciples. They are all currently weekend cruisers but at least 2 of them are planning long cruises in future.

They tell me I am mad to consider the likes of Bav/Jean/Ben as they are aren’t up to the task. Technology moves on so I wonder if my friend’s advice is just behind the times. Did anyone see the test head-on collision with a big old Volvo verses that tiny little Renault on channel 5 fifth gear? The little Renault absolutely destroyed the twice it’s weight Volvo. The decision to buy a 10-year-old BMW or a brand new Skoda is not such an easy decision anymore and I wonder if it’s the same with yachts.

And now as I play fantasy boat buyer I begin to realise that for a live aboard, there’s a lot going for a catamaran. Again, has technology moved on since the old days when cats didn’t manoeuvre and had 2 stable positions, 1 being upright?

So may I have your opinion please? Me and the misses are looking to sell up, and live aboard sailing the med. We hope to have a consistent bunch of friends joining us for their holidays and we’re are going to be fairly skint, In my shoes, what would you do?

 

[HoratioHB]

agards - my situation exactly but we are well ahead of you. We went for a Jeanneau for simple value for money reasons - considered a cat for about 10 seconds after we discovered how much more we would have to pay for a comparable boat (£200k v £125k).

As I've said before in this thread I will happily sail my 42ft plastic modern AWB anywhere in the world just as many have and will do in the future.

 

[Guest]

Depends on what you intend to do. Everyone's needs are different. Thankfully.

IF you are going out in Oceans then I would take the time to go through the Fastnet results for this year. The weather was no worse than what we experienced for one reason or another.

Look at each make of boat and see how they fared against the weather with respect to other makes. The race was a bit unfair to small boats as the wind shifts disadvantaged the slower ones.

However, examples like Blustery Day and Tigo IV might be more to do with the crew than the boat. Brilliant.

 

[BlueSkyNick]

[ QUOTE ]
Doris is right. F1 drivers in those days would do saloon car races at the same meetings sometimes. That is Jim Clark in the shot of the Lotus Cortina.

[/ QUOTE ] I am sure you are right as its a track race, but I think you will also find that Roger Clark rallied Cortinas before Escorts.

 

[Cornishman]

To answer your headline, somebody in The Lounge was claiming to have been pulled over by a red Cortina for speeding after it raised its rear window blind to reveal that it was a police car!
And there are plenty of Moggy Minors in the westcountry 'cos we can't afford nought else after all our houses have been snapped up by emmets and grockles at hugely inflated prices and we are sleeping in the garage with the car. That's why we prefer old gaffers and luggers. Poor but 'appy /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[jonjo]

[ QUOTE ]
What on earth takes a whole season, that only needs to be done every 20 years, and can not be done in winter? Curious.

[/ QUOTE ]
He had to remove a worn-out layer of some form of antislip coating. Some weekends he would only advance a foot or two along the sidedeck using a manual scraper and an electric chisel. The decks are now covered with an antislip paste and look excellent.

 

[Guest]

"... only advance a foot or two along the sidedeck using a manual scraper and an electric chisel"

Glad I asked! I think that says it all, about the difference between one yachty and another. Which is the basis of this thread.

 

[zefender]

Re: extreme examles compared

A friend of a friend asked for a look at my boat last weekend (a Bav 40). He has a ferro Endurance 35 (20 or so years old) which he built himself. I was half expecting a mocking, tut-tut sort of visit. But it was anything but. He hardly sails his much loved boat principally because his wife doesn't enjoy being at sea in it. He'd never really been in a AWB. He was in awe at the space it has and how comfortable he thought it would be to live on. He was probably much too polite to scoff at the lightly made handholds and the lack of beautiful carpentry but the lighting, headroom, galley, equipment etc won him over. He left, feeling a bit depressed since he knew if he had a similar boat he'd be able to do more of the sailing he so loved, with his wife. The weird thing is that I chartered an Endurance 38 a few years back and absolutely loved it. I know his boat would be utterly charming and fantastically built. Before I bought the Bav, I took Mrs Zef to see the Endurance I chartered, which was then for sale. She saw none of the beauty and didn't care how it sailed and what it would be like in a sea. She just hated it.

So I have a Bav, which has taken me wherever I've wanted to go, comfortably and in safety. I made the right decision, all things considered. I'd love an Endurance though!

 

[Guest]

[ QUOTE ]
The only person who honestly presents the ugly financial/diy side of MAB ownership is Dick Durham in his regular YM column.

[/ QUOTE ]
...who recently decided to buy a Contessa. Seem to remember he wrote an article a few months ago eulogising the benefits of owning a 70's Contessa, how little maintenance necessary etc... compared to the wooden boat he used to have!

 

[Lakesailor]

I wish the thread drift here would stop. This is obviously a thread about Morris 1000s and Cortinas. It says so.

You are quite correct about Roger Albert Clark, he made his debut at club level in 1956, and went on to win the first of four British Rally Championships in a Ford Cortina GT in 1965. He was the rally side of the equation.

How about this for F1 drivers on a rally?

Sunbeam Team: Raymond Baxter, Paddy Hopkirk, Jack Brabham, Peter Jopp, Tiny Lewis, Peter Collins, Bruce McLaren, John Fitch, Stirling Moss, Anne Hall, Peter Procter, Peter Harper, Mike Hawthorn, Sheila van Dann, <span style="color:blue">Graham Hill</span>