How heavy is a Hillyard 4 tonner?

The Ton divisions were appended onto the IOR ratings, largely because there were cups and silverware already available as prizes.

The One Ton Cup was originally raced for by open keel boats that rated at One Ton in the old Tonnage rules. They were around 20 feet in length and had been an Olympic Class in Paris in the early 20th century.

But when the Universal Rule and International Rule replaced the Tonnage Rating rule, there were no 'One Tonners' to race for the Trophies.

So when the IOR rule was formed by the combination of the RORC and American rules, the boats were divided up into bands with the One Ton Cup being awarded to those that rated about 27.5 feet IOR. The subdivisions eventually ranged from Mini-tonners through to Maxis.
 
sailorman said:
The IOR explained, it has nothing at all to do with the OPs question
i have an IOR One Tonner

Rule components

The IOR concentrated on hull shape with length, beam, freeboard and girth measurements, foretriangle, mast and boom measurements, and stability with an inclination test. Additionally, the IOR identified features which were dangerous, or it couldn't fairly rate, and penalized or prohibited them. The measurements and penalties were used to compute the handicap number, called an IOR rating, in feet. The higher the rating, the faster the boat was deemed to be able to sail. A typical IOR 40 footer (a one tonner) rated 30.55 feet.

The IOR rule encouraged wide short boats with limited stability. A narrow waterline and large beam on deck, combined with a high centre of gravity, meant that crew weight provided a significant proportion of stability at small heel angles, and boats had a relatively low angle off vanishing stability. This developed into the situation about 1977 when the boats winning in most smaller IOR categories (up to the half tonners - about 10m LOA) had all internal ballast, often with an unballasted daggerboard. The managers of the rule realised that this was not a suitable direction for seaworthy yachts, and heavily penalised boats with lifting keels.

Apart from the girth measurements, all measurements were basically point measurements. This meant that the hull was often locally distorted to maximise or minimise a measurement locally, with minimal effect to the surrounding hull. This gave a characteristic bumped look to many boats, particularly at the point of maximum beam and in the stern. Also, as stability was only measured at very low heel angles (less than 5 degrees), boats were designed with a very narrow waterline and low stability in measurement trim, but a hull form that gained stability with the weight of the crew and other equipment, and with increasing angles of heel. Interestingly, low stability was encouraged (up to a point) because the initial assumption was that low stability indicated a well fitted out interior, and so more of a cruising boat than a stripped out racer.

Secondary design factors included engine and propeller rating factors, minimum internal accommodation levels, safety regulations, and a limit on the number of sails carried on board. Later on, crew limits were introduced, and limits on the use of exotic materials, and also scantlings for hull structural design developed by the American Bureau of Shipping.
Practical implications for sailors and owners

In a handicap race, the IOR length was used to compute a time allowance. In Europe this was calculated on the duration of the race, in seconds per hour, known as Time on Time, whereas in the USA they preferred to base it on the length of the race, as seconds per mile, known as Time on Distance. Time on Distance is easier to calculate at any point in the race, but can cause significant anomalies in tidal waters as the distance sailed through the water can differ significantly from the distance over the ground, due to the effect of the tide.

The IOR rule was also used to define level rating classes, where each class had a maximum IOR rating, and the first boat to finish was the winner, with no handicapping. The first of these was the One Ton class, so named because there was a spare trophy from the defunct One Ton rating class, and this then spawned the Mini Ton, 1/4 Ton, 1/2 Ton, 3/4 Ton and Two Ton classes, as well as unofficial 50-footer, ULDB 70, and Maxi classes. The official classes each had an annual world championships.

The IOR was run by the ITC, or International Technical Committee, of the Offshore Racing Congress, chaired between 1979 and 1987 by the late Gary Mull of San Francisco.[2] As with all published handicapping formulae, there was an ongoing game between the designers finding ways of designing boats that took advantage of shortcomings in the measurement system and handicapping formulae, and the rule makers closing the loopholes to ensure fair racing and a reasonable competitive life for the boats. As the racing became more competitive, the rate of change in the rule accelerated, and also the boats at the top of the fleet became stripped out racing machines that performed well but were expensive and also difficult to sail, and this resulted in a loss of popularity. However even if club sailors could not compete against the top boats, the IOR did generate a reasonably level playing field across the sailing spectrum, with club sailors buying production race boats or custom boats past their prime, and moving up to more competitive boats as they wanted to sail up the fleet. Towards the end of its life the IOR had become a stable rule, but by then it had a reputation of changing too often, and this sowed the seeds for its successors. IMS was introduced as a more scientific rule for racing yachts, driven by the USA, whereas Channel Handicap was introduced by the RORC as a simple club level rule that would hopefully feed people into IOR racing - though in fact it proved to be the final nail in the coffin for the IOR rule.
Click to expand...
This is one hell of an answer. This deserves to get googled for anyone else who asks the question!
 
As far as the OP's question, I don't know the answer, but knowing Hillyards, it will be heavy for the length! I reckon you could break ice in a Hillyard, and I wouldn't be in the least surprised if displaced at LEAST 4 tons.

There won't be a standard weight, though, because they are wooden construction, and so will vary from boat to boat.
 
AntarcticPilot said:
As far as the OP's question, I don't know the answer, but knowing Hillyards, it will be heavy for the length! I reckon you could break ice in a Hillyard, and I wouldn't be in the least surprised if displaced at LEAST 4 tons.

There won't be a standard weight, though, because they are wooden construction, and so will vary from boat to boat.
Click to expand...
The question was asked because I'm considering buying a 'doer-upper' and need to transport it on a trailer or lorry.
I'm not interested in what trophies I will be qualified for but I'm glad the original post has attrached so much response.
 
The Hillyard Tonnage measurment does not relate to the Thamse Tonnage measurement and does not relate to the weight of the boat either. We had a 13 ton (though we were told it was a 12 ton) its Thames Tonnage was about 11.2 and its deadweight according to the crane at the last yard it was hauled at was approx 10 tons.

I doubt if anyone will know the exact weight of a Hillyard 4 tonner but the ops suggestion that an HB Z4 Tonner has a displacement weight of 3.5 tons would be close to the weight of the Hillyard 4 tonner. HB and Hillyards are similar in the weight and internal volume department.
 
Sequoiah1 said:
The Hillyard Tonnage measurment does not relate to the Thamse Tonnage measurement

We had a 13 ton (though we were told it was a 12 ton) its Thames Tonnage was about 11.2 and its deadweight according to the crane at the last yard it was hauled at was approx 10 tons.
Click to expand...

Do you have any evidence that Hillyard Tonnage does not relate to Thames Tonnage? I can find no reference to any difference from my books going back to the 1920's.

I would think your 11.2 tons was its Registered Tonnage. This is what is carved on the deck beams of Pt 1 Registered boats. That's not the same as a boat's Thames Tonnage.
 
The names of Hillyards were just that - approximations of size. The actual boats varied quite a bit in length and therefore registered (or indeed Thames) tonnage. You can imagine the conversation with a potential buyer - "like the 12 tonner, but could you make it a bit longer for me? Certainly sir, £50 per foot extra"
 
The one Im looking at is on Apollo duck 4t 22ft overall (can't post link from phone,Im not smart enough). 4t is heavy for 22ft. Think I'd ditch the doghouse!
Hillyard list doesn't show any 4 tonners in 1935.
 
Last edited:
Judging by my experience getting a friends' 2,1/2 tonner from Portsmouth to Chichester, that weighed about 100 tons with added drag like towing a barn door !

I'd suggest each boat needs to be treated individually by now, but don't plan on getting anywhere in a hurry.
 
ghostlymoron said:
The one Im looking at is on Apollo duck 4t 22ft overall (can't post link from phone,Im not smart enough). 4t is heavy for 22ft. Think I'd ditch the doghouse!
Hillyard list doesn't show any 4 tonners in 1935.
Click to expand...

Having looked at the photos, think that will weigh less than 3 tons, but probably too heavy for a trailer. Best bet would be a flat bed with a HI AB.

Although it looks like a Hillyard, it may not actually be one. Often the origins of old boats like this is a bit of a mystery and get they wrongly described. May of course be wrong as there may be documentary evidence of its builder. Looks nice, though - especially when you burn the doghouse, or recycle the timber if it is sound.
 
Ghostly,

she looks like a Hillyard to me; should still be a lot of knowledge and info' around Littlehampton, I knew a chap doing up a 9 tonner there.

I agree re. ditching the doghouse though !

238551_1.jpg
 
An Answer?

I have found a formula which seems to work for my long keeler.

Weight lbs=LWL x WLbeam x Draft x 0.28 x 64 feet

Your boat I think is 21 x 6 x 4 feet max dimensions

So say 20 x 6 x 4 gives 8602 lbs = 3.9 tonnes

So it looks as if a 4 tonner is around 4 tonnes.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Other threads that may be of interest

S
Aerogen 4 capacitors
2
Replies
22
Views
618
Boater Sam
Boater Sam
dgadee
Schaefer 650 Furler - what can I do with it?
Replies
1
Views
113
dgadee
dgadee

Share this page

Top