How do I become a better sailor

[flaming]

Every single one of these can also be improved without racing.

That's really the only part of your post I'd disagree with. It's much, much harder to improve skills like those without going racing. I sailed for over 20 years, and passed YM, before I did any significant racing. I've learnt way, way more in the last 8 years of active racing than I ever did in that first 20.
It's not for everyone, but the question was "how to improve" and my answer is go racing.

 

[westernman]

Personally I think the best way to learn sailing is to start on an old gaffer. Once you know how to sail and maneuver one of those, all other boats will seem simple in comparison.

Once you start on an old gaffer, you won't be able to go back to a Bavaria again........

There is just too much to learn on an old gaffer and too much satisfaction from doing it. E.g. succeeding getting the top sail to set right - even if we covered 20 miles while trying to do it......

 

[chrisedwards]

Once you start on an old gaffer, you won't be able to go back to a Bavaria again........

There is just too much to learn on an old gaffer and too much satisfaction from doing it. E.g. succeeding getting the top sail to set right - even if we covered 20 miles while trying to do it......

not so sure about this - certainly the challenge of handling the sails but in so many ways the older hulled boats are far easier to manoeuvre. The long keel and deep forefoot- falls off the wind later/less drastic keel stalling, easier to heave to in a variety of positions, steers itself. etc etc. If you want to learn how to really handle a difficult hull then buy a modern boat.

 

[Ubergeekian]

That's really the only part of your post I'd disagree with. It's much, much harder to improve skills like those without going racing. I sailed for over 20 years, and passed YM, before I did any significant racing. I've learnt way, way more in the last 8 years of active racing than I ever did in that first 20.

With all due respect, that may reflect more on the cruising and racing you personally have done than on any underlying truths. The absolute worst crew manager I know is an enthusiastic and quite successful racer - but his constant screaming tantrums just look ridiculous and drive away crew members on a regular basis. He's a little better when cruising, but not much!

Some people get better under the pressure and excitement of racing. Some get better sailing alone and reflecting. There's room in the world for both sorts, thank goodness.

It's not for everyone, but the question was "how to improve" and my answer is go racing.

I certainly think that it's an answer, and a good one, just not the answer.

 

[BobPrell]

How do you learn to sail better? The only answer to that is to race. Unless you compete with others you never know whether you are sailing well or not.

This is the sort of statement that causes me to talk about the tyranny of racing attitudes (see post #9).

OP has said nothing about wanting to be a racer. If one wants to sail and cruise, what is "sailing well"? It may not be pushing self, crew and vessel beyond levels where they can sail indefinitely, and reach their destination in good condition, or indeed change their mind and do some thing else.

Some of that wear and tear on vessels on long voyages, is caused, I am sure, by trying to sail at racing performance levels all the time.

I do not mean to imply that wotayottie has deliberately set out to be tyrannical, but this is one of those pieces of accepted dogma which needs critical reflection.

 

[Woodlouse]

not so sure about this - certainly the challenge of handling the sails but in so many ways the older hulled boats are far easier to manoeuvre. The long keel and deep forefoot- falls off the wind later/less drastic keel stalling, easier to heave to in a variety of positions, steers itself. etc etc. If you want to learn how to really handle a difficult hull then buy a modern boat.

When sailing a long keel is forgiving, true. But try turning one in a marina, or reversing and suddenly a light, shallow, overpowered tupperware boat is simplicity defined.

The challenges with a gaffer are that they are all different. I must have sailed over a dozen in my time, and all with a different method of hoisting a topsail. Halyards all go to different places, and are all the same colour. But if you get enough practice on enough different boats then you develop a mental dexterity that very quickly works out what does what on pretty much any boat, old or new. And that is what makes a good sailor.

 

[Neil]

Personally I think the best way to learn sailing is to start on an old gaffer. Once you know how to sail and maneuver one of those, all other boats will seem simple in comparison.

Even more than the OP, my sailing career (with the exception of some dinghy lessons during a couple of holidays) started late in life (mid 50's). I have done DS and while my long term plans terminate in a decent size cruising boat when commitments permit, I still have almost everything to learn. In the meantime, I've been sailing a (new) gaffer day boat for the last couple of years. Not as tender as a dinghy, small enough to be responsive and easily single-handable, I think it a good learning boat (it also looks very pretty!). I keep it at home and rig it at the slip every time. At this stage, I know the rig quite well!

Not having mooring fees, bought new and always available for touch up maintenance, running costs are minimal, and I can concentrate on actually using the boat.

I'm learning how to sail by doing it, and at times it is a struggle, but I suspect that once I have a modicum of competence on a long-keeled gaffer, the rest will be plain sailing!

 

[flaming]

With all due respect, that may reflect more on the cruising and racing you personally have done than on any underlying truths.

It's hardly a unique opinion though. Every racer I know would tell you the same thing, so there must be something in it. To me the interesting thing is that before I started racing I thought I was pretty good at boat handling. I pretty soon had it proved to me that I was merely adequet.

The absolute worst crew manager I know is an enthusiastic and quite successful racer - but his constant screaming tantrums just look ridiculous and drive away crew members on a regular basis. He's a little better when cruising, but not much!

The words "good sailor" and "constant screaming tantrums" are mutually exclusive. Please do not think that such people are

A: good
B: accepted or respected in any way by other racers.

 

[chrisedwards]

When sailing a long keel is forgiving, true. But try turning one in a marina, or reversing and suddenly a light, shallow, overpowered tupperware boat is simplicity defined.

The challenges with a gaffer are that they are all different. I must have sailed over a dozen in my time, and all with a different method of hoisting a topsail. Halyards all go to different places, and are all the same colour. But if you get enough practice on enough different boats then you develop a mental dexterity that very quickly works out what does what on pretty much any boat, old or new. And that is what makes a good sailor.

Not sure about this - marina work is such a tiny and unrewarding part of sailing experience. I am talking about sailing and my earlier examples stand.
Not sure about a more demanding rig making you a better sailor. A simple, easy to handle rig will allow you to sail "more often" - unless you are fully - really fully - crewed. To sail "more often" - up small crowded creeks and sometimes to your marina berth. This is valuable experience.

 

[Woodlouse]

It's hardly a unique opinion though. Every racer I know would tell you the same thing, so there must be something in it. To me the interesting thing is that before I started racing I thought I was pretty good at boat handling. I pretty soon had it proved to me that I was merely adequet.

Every racer you know would probably have rather a biased opinion. I find very few dedicated racers ever go cruising and so have little knowledge of what can be learnt from it. Likewise a lot of cruising folk rarely if ever race and again, they miss out of what can be gained.

 

[flaming]

Every racer you know would probably have rather a biased opinion. I find very few dedicated racers ever go cruising and so have little knowledge of what can be learnt from it. Likewise a lot of cruising folk rarely if ever race and again, they miss out of what can be gained.

Most racers I know are, or were, cruising sailors. They are all people who love being on the water first of all.

2 of our crew are cruising instructors, teaching cruising all year round, and one is a yachtmaster examiner... and they all agree with me....

 

[Woodlouse]

Not sure about this - marina work is such a tiny and unrewarding part of sailing experience. I am talking about sailing and my earlier examples stand.
Not sure about a more demanding rig making you a better sailor. A simple, easy to handle rig will allow you to sail "more often" - unless you are fully - really fully - crewed. To sail "more often" - up small crowded creeks and sometimes to your marina berth. This is valuable experience.

I agree with you on sailing with a long keel. But with a modern fin and skeg it can be easier, you don't miss stays when tacking for example, and it can be more obvious when you need to reef.

As for the more demanding rig, to be able to use it like others would a simple rig does, I think, make you a better sailor. You don't need to be "fully crewed" if you know what you are doing. I've sailed good sized gaffers with a crew of 2 for example and most without autopilots wouldn't go below that number on a bermudan sloop with a roll up headsail. Same goes for sailing up creeks and onto marinas, it doesn't matter how complex the boat is, if the crew is capable enough then away you go.

 

[chrisedwards]

I agree with you on sailing with a long keel. But with a modern fin and skeg it can be easier, you don't miss stays when tacking for example, and it can be more obvious when you need to reef.

As for the more demanding rig, to be able to use it like others would a simple rig does, I think, make you a better sailor. You don't need to be "fully crewed" if you know what you are doing. I've sailed good sized gaffers with a crew of 2 for example and most without autopilots wouldn't go below that number on a bermudan sloop with a roll up headsail. Same goes for sailing up creeks and onto marinas, it doesn't matter how complex the boat is, if the crew is capable enough then away you go.

I agree - tacking can be easier with a fin but I've never seen an experienced sailor miss stays on a traditional hull - with a long bowsprit - you have more leverage up front, predictable handling etc.

Wow - your assertion that most of us would have a crew of two on a "bermudan sloop with a roll up headsail" is questionnable to say the least. Sailing with families is often more difficult then singlehanding.

No matter how good a sailor you are you are constrained by the limitations of your boat/rig.
A complex gaff rig will not allow you to do as much as a simpler rig all other things being equal - it stands to reason therefore I stand by my earlier belief that an easier to handle rig will allow you to do more ( ie sailing/manoeuvering) and so picking up meaningful experiences relevant to being a better sailor.

 

[BobPrell]

Most racers I know are, or were, cruising sailors. They are all people who love being on the water first of all.

2 of our crew are cruising instructors, teaching cruising all year round, and one is a yachtmaster examiner... and they all agree with me....

I would cite the second statement as evidence of how pervasive is the "racing teaches best" dogma.

From the first, and the rest of your posts, I would say you have had a very positive experience of all sides of sailing. Good Luck to you and may it continue.

Unfortunately, some peeps have less positive experiences. I have observed way too much drinking and bragging, not only after, but during races.

Still searching but.

 

[Ubergeekian]

It's hardly a unique opinion though. Every racer I know would tell you the same thing, so there must be something in it.

Hmm. "People who do racing think that racing is a good thing to do" is perhaps not the world's most surprising headline.

The words "good sailor" and "constant screaming tantrums" are mutually exclusive.

He wins lots of races, though. Which maybe suggests that there is more to sailing than going fast?
Sorry, that's not supposed to sound antagonistic. I think racing is an excellent way - perhaps the best way - to learn a subset of sailing skills. How big a subset that is depends entirely on what sort of sailing one wants to do. Can we agree on that?

 

[KellysEye]

>Some of that wear and tear on vessels on long voyages, is caused, I am sure, by trying to sail at racing performance levels all the time.

Certainly true in the racing and cruiser/racing classes and delivery skippers but not your average cruiser. In my experience very few push their boats hard for two reasons.

On a long passage crew comfort is the priority, pushing the boat means higher angles of heel, or more violent rolling, less sleep and difficult to cook. Also we look after our boats, which means we try to minimise breakages by not hammering it.

We are never in a hurry and prepared to drift if there is no wind. However things can still break even when drifting if there is left over swell running.

 

[prv]

Not sure about a more demanding rig making you a better sailor. A simple, easy to handle rig will allow you to sail "more often" - unless you are fully - really fully - crewed. To sail "more often" - up small crowded creeks and sometimes to your marina berth.

I don't know if my rig counts as "demanding", but with two masts, two gaff sails, two headsails and a bowsprit it's certainly more complex than your average Bavaria. A simpler rig would not let me sail more often - only a dramatic change to my work hours could do that. I can and do pop down on a summer weekday evening and sail my "complex" rig on the river and on Southampton Water. I will admit I've never sailed onto my marina berth, but I've sailed up the river to within spitting distance of it, and my record on the way out is 20 seconds of engine use to haul out of the berth before hoisting the peak and killing the donk. I generally do this kind of thing singlehanded as I find it less stressful without having to coordinate other people.

I don't claim to be "a better sailor", just that saying you can't manoeuvre a gaff rig shorthanded and in a small space is incorrect.

Pete

 

[Marmalade]

I'd focus on things that are pertinent to your own boat...

e.g. can you reliably heave to? If not - go out one day and practice heaving to until you know the exact sail plan / combination / method that works on your boat.

Can you sail on / off a pontoon or buoy? - again, if not spend an afternoon bashing about til you can do it reliably and repeatably

What would you do if your rudder failed - have you practiced rigging your emergency tiller and using it in anger? Can you steer with the sails?

I do this during the winter with mates on each others' boats - so that during the summer SWMBO thinks I've got it all covered!

 

[westernman]

I can handle my 34 tonne gaffer single handed except for backing into the marina berth in a crosswind from the starboard bow.

There I need someone to handle the warp to stop the bow blowing off and wrapping the boat around the catamaran in the next berth (which would end up at least 3 feet shorter in the process).

If the wind too strong, I go and park somewhere else (usually against the wall further along). That I can do single handed as well.

A big gaffer can be sailed single handed if you know what you are doing and take your time (applies particularly to hoisting the 900 sq ft main - which if you do it alone and quickly is very very hard work).

 

[flaming]

I think racing is an excellent way - perhaps the best way - to learn a subset of sailing skills. How big a subset that is depends entirely on what sort of sailing one wants to do. Can we agree on that?

Well of course. I wasn't aware that was in doubt?

OP asked how to get better, I have simply stated that, in my opinion, the fastest way to substancially improve a large section of your skills is to take up racing.