How do I become a better sailor

[Athene V30]

Did a Coastal Skipper course with instructor on my yacht.

For example, on my recent charter in the BVIs I came out of a marina through a narrow channel with breaking surf on both sides. If my engine had failed, or I got a rope propped (as happened to another member of the flotilla) I ought to have been ready to hoist a sail very quickly. As it was I simply motored out uneventfully.

Very surprised that this wasn't covered on Coastal Skipper course. Sailing older boats with older engines I would NEVER slip without sails ready to go.

As others have said there is no better alternative than more sea time in different conditions and in different locations. Just watch out though for those who say they have '25 years experience' and in that time have sailed to / from the same places - to me that is more like 25 x 1 years experience!

 

[chrisedwards]

Very surprised that this wasn't covered on Coastal Skipper course. Sailing older boats with older engines I would NEVER slip without sails ready to go.

As others have said there is no better alternative than more sea time in different conditions and in different locations. Just watch out though for those who say they have '25 years experience' and in that time have sailed to / from the same places - to me that is more like 25 x 1 years experience!

Our greatest seaman - James Cook "sailed to/from same places in North Sea" then hand picked as suitable for discovering much of the world.

 

[Bosun Higgs]

Why would anyone run the engine while sailing?

In your previous posts you have implied a view that "sailing" includes everything from making the crew comfortable to coming alongside a pontoon and anchoring. Obviously in this version of " sailing" you use the engine some of the time, and thats ignoring motorsailing of course.

Personally I dont include issues such as crew comfort, or anchoring skills or pontoon work under the heading of sailing any more than I would include cooking on board or music on board, or the thickness of on board duvets. If you include such topics then of course you wont benefit by racing the boat.

On the other hand if you believe sailing is all about handling a boat under sail, then you will benefit from racing and competition.

 

[KellysEye]

>Personally I dont include issues such as crew comfort, or anchoring skills or pontoon work under the heading of sailing

What a strange thing to say. I would put those things and others such as navigation and emergency repairs in the definition of the word seamanship. Sailing is steering and adjusting the sails, which is (say) five per cent of what good/safe sailors need to know.

 

[chrisedwards]

In your previous posts you have implied a view that "sailing" includes everything from making the crew comfortable to coming alongside a pontoon and anchoring. Obviously in this version of " sailing" you use the engine some of the time, and thats ignoring motorsailing of course.

Personally I dont include issues such as crew comfort, or anchoring skills or pontoon work under the heading of sailing any more than I would include cooking on board or music on board, or the thickness of on board duvets. If you include such topics then of course you wont benefit by racing the boat.

On the other hand if you believe sailing is all about handling a boat under sail, then you will benefit from racing and competition.

for you "sailing" is "handling a boat under sail" and does not include "anchoring skills". For hundreds of years, anchor work has been an intrinsic part of handling boats under sail from helping to get through stays, alongside a pontoon with a sharp bend (dropping anchor before bend and letting cable drag afound end of pontoon and act as spring) etc etc - I am just reading from a collection of old seamanship books.

Welcome your comments.

 

[tudorsailor]

>Personally I dont include issues such as crew comfort, or anchoring skills or pontoon work under the heading of sailing

What a strange thing to say. I would put those things and others such as navigation and emergency repairs in the definition of the word seamanship. Sailing is steering and adjusting the sails, which is (say) five per cent of what good/safe sailors need to know.

Shall I re-start the thread and call it "How can I learn more seamanship?"

TS

 

[Bosun Higgs]

Shall I re-start the thread and call it "How can I learn more seamanship?"

TS

You're right of course. It's all semantics. I've probably flogged this particular horse a bit too much. But to go back to my very first post in reply, you learn an awful lot of seamanship from books, from sailing with others and even from chat in the club bar. It's one of those areas of life where you continue to learn as you do things and there arent any real fast tracks.

And don't forget pure native wit. The words "Risk assessment" get lots of people going but the approach of stopping to think of what can go wrong before a manoeuvre as you do in a risk assessment is a very good habit to develop.

But as you have probably guessed, I feel that you wont ever get the best pure sailing skills without doing some racing

 

[prr]

Someone once said ''getting around the The Scilly Isles in a boat, takes a better seaman than getting to the Scilly Isles in a boat.' Now there's silly for you.
I say the easiest way to become a better sailor is to walk with a wide rolling gait, & swing your arms atharwtships..... not fore n aft!

 

[Ubergeekian]

I see people leaving their moorings under motor all the time just to move 300 yds to put the sails up.

It worries me slightly that entering or leaving moorings and anchorages under sail is often seen as a rather odd thing to do. My policy has always been to do it all under sail if at all possible - if there is one time I don't ever want to be dependent on an engine it's doing close-quarters stuff.

 

[Lucky Duck]

I see people leaving their moorings under motor all the time just to move 300 yds to put the sails up.

If the wind is blowing from astern it can feel at lot less hassle than dropping the mooring under jib alone and then rounding up to hoist the main. Also some moorings are just too closely spaced to be able to sail off without feeling at risk of hitting a neighbouring boat.

 

[Ubergeekian]

If the wind is blowing from astern it can feel at lot less hassle than dropping the mooring under jib alone and then rounding up to hoist the main.

Transfer mooring to stern. Hoist sails as normal. Slip mooring.

 

[chrisedwards]

Transfer mooring to stern. Hoist sails as normal. Slip mooring.

"hoist sails"? - plural - can you hoist your mainsail with the wind astern? or do you, as the earlier poster said, have to round up later? - in which case the previous concern stands - need for searoom where other boats are close and you are out of control while hoisting your main.

 

[prv]

Transfer mooring to stern. Hoist sails as normal. Slip mooring.

"hoist sails"? - plural - can you hoist your mainsail with the wind astern?

If he has moved the mooring to the stern, in the tide-bound anchorage described, then he will now be head to wind. That's why he did it.

Pete

 

[Ubergeekian]

If he has moved the mooring to the stern, in the tide-bound anchorage described, then he will now be head to wind. That's why he did it.

Yup.

 

[Lucky Duck]

Yup.

Thanks for the tip, I'll give it a try when the boat is back in the water. Still, it is probably easier just to turn the key and motor off.

 

[alan_d]

Shall I re-start the thread and call it "How can I learn more seamanship?"

TS

No, you would still get the same arguements.

 

[Koeketiene]

Transfer mooring to stern. Hoist sails as normal. Slip mooring.

Great tale to tell in the club bar (or on an Internet forum), but who in God's name does that for fun when they don't have to?

There are lots of things I can do, but very few I actually do unless I really have to.
When we were on a mooring and the wind and tide were just right we sailed off our mooring - when it wasn't: we started the engine and motored for a bit, just enough to get the laundry up and I make no apologies.

 

[Searush]

(snip) The problem with sailing is that as skipper I rarely have anyone more experienced than me on board from whom to learn. I recently had PYD sail my yacht back to the UK and I joined the crew for the Biscay Crossing. The young skipper had huge experience and I learned a lot in the 4 days.

It strikes me that sailing is a solo sport - even when crew are on board, and most of us learn by mistakes. However there are things one can only learn by someone else showing one what to do in a given situation.

(snip)

How to other forumnites feel about learning more???

TS

Just tell lies in the clubroom, like everyone else.

First read lots of sailing books, then you can be a Cape Horn shellback with dismastings & pitchpoling experience to draw on. You can explain why you think Moitessier was mad to try out running waves in the Roaring Forties & what the Hiscocks did wrong when they went aground, how Elmo Wortman could have been rescured before he got frostbitten & where a dozen other salty heroes went wrong.

 

[mcframe]

Very surprised that this wasn't covered on Coastal Skipper course. Sailing older boats with older engines I would NEVER slip without sails ready to go.

Mainsail halyard on the headboard, but looped round a cleat on the mast - standard instruction to crew is "If it goes castors-up, please either undo *that* or open *that* and chuck out the anchor" ; "if it's really serious, then please run back and grab the tiller as I run forward and panic, then decide what to do".....

 

[douglas_family]

I'd focus on things that are pertinent to your own boat...

e.g. can you reliably heave to? If not - go out one day and practice heaving to until you know the exact sail plan / combination / method that works on your boat.

Can you sail on / off a pontoon or buoy? - again, if not spend an afternoon bashing about til you can do it reliably and repeatably

What would you do if your rudder failed - have you practiced rigging your emergency tiller and using it in anger? Can you steer with the sails?
!

I agreewith this but you might consider

checklists:
Most checklists are mental for manovers such as reefing comming alongside etc, written lists can useful for stuff you dont encounter mutch like fog.

racing: if you want to improve sail setting skills, developing understanding of tidal eddies wind shadows etc, as you cant switch the engine on you spend more time thinking about whats going on arround you.

confidence:
This is where its really at if you believe in your ability to manage all situations (even if not perfectly) you will consider the hazords courses of action and then focus on getting things right. This is definatly increased by good boat handeling under sail and that can be achieved on any size of boat it just takes practice.

experience:
A good range of experience is great perticularly if it involved med mooring piles anchoring in different situations strong tidel sets secondry ports tidel gates etc.

Offshore:
atlantic trade wind crossing is strait forward getting to the cannaries or cape verdies to set off is the hardest part sailing wise, the rest is all boat prep and provisioning.

Training:
The courses are a lot of fun and informative.