How Deep a Keel is too Deep?

[Genoa]

Clearly there is a trade off between being able to explore shallow coastline, and sailing performance/stability curves. So the question is simply what do people feel is a sensible max draught.?
Assuming the desired usage of the boat is UK coastal waters, with the occasional trip to France/Belgium and Scandinavia. This seems to me to be one of the first considerations - where do you want to go, and what must the boat be capable of doing? I used to have a 44' Moody with 4'11" draught and went up creeks on the East Coast, but I have also had >6' on a 33' and been stumped by what should be some great cruising grounds in the English Channel, so its not about length of vessel - I don't want to start from that perspective, although 38-46 ' is probably about right for the cruising comforts I'd be looking for on a monohull.

 

[Fatbeard]

Nail on the head. I wonder if there is a straightforward table of tidal rivers and harbours across the UK and europe with a focus on max draft. Visual aids would be good too!

I would take a good look at the area in which I intended to keep your boat. Look at where you will go repeatedly on weekend jollies, then look at destinations further afield. Buy something that will enable you to explore!

Afterthought ... A look at how your mast be unstepped may also reward you with more options?

 

[Spyro]

Not having sailed in shallow waters apart from avoiding the odd rocks or shallow harbours would a difference of say 18 inches make all that much of a difference to where you would sail? If I was that close to touching the bottom I would never feel comfortable sailing there whether I had a 4 ft or a 6 ft draft.

 

[Kukri]

Most UK marinas are dredged to a maximum of two metres; there are often parts of the marina with less.

Don’t ask me how I know this...

 

[johnalison]

Not having sailed in shallow waters apart from avoiding the odd rocks or shallow harbours would a difference of say 18 inches make all that much of a difference to where you would sail? If I was that close to touching the bottom I would never feel comfortable sailing there whether I had a 4 ft or a 6 ft draft.

I could cope with the full 1.8m draft for my 34 but the officially 1.5, nearer 1.6, of my current boat has given me a wider scope on the East Coast and Baltic. It also gets me in early in St Peter Port and better berths. We not infrequently sail in marginal depths and 0.3m under the keel coming over the hard Pye Sands is quite feasible, or in other conditions 0.6 instead of 0.3 more reassuring.

Not all designs sail well with shoal draft, so much depends on your chosen cruising ground, though mine is very similar to deeper sisters in performance and stability. Most sailors who sail mine and associated models on the East Coast have the shallow option, while South Coast sailors I think universally have the deeper.

 

[Genoa]

Nail on the head. I wonder if there is a straightforward table of tidal rivers and harbours across the UK and europe with a focus on max draft. Visual aids would be good too!

... i feel a pilot blog coming on ... around N Europe by depth.

I could cope with the full 1.8m draft for my 34 but the officially 1.5, nearer 1.6, of my current boat has given me a wider scope on the East Coast and Baltic. It also gets me in early in St Peter Port and better berths. We not infrequently sail in marginal depths and 0.3m under the keel coming over the hard Pye Sands is quite feasible, or in other conditions 0.6 instead of 0.3 more reassuring.

The get in early bit is interesting - you may sacrifice say 1 hour on passage, but get over a bar 1h30m earlier, so the other guy is sitting out waiting ...

 

[RichardS]

I'm happy with 1 metre ..... actually 2 x 1 metre, I suppose. Anything else would be too much. :encouragement:

Richard

 

[pmagowan]

I have 7'4" but don't find it too restricting on the west coast of Scotland. We have occasionally touched ground in shallow harbours but nothing of concern. We had to plough our own furrow in Howth at low tide for an early departure. I can't say that there are too many places where we can't go that bother me. We do, perhaps, have to take a less cautious view as to depth under keel. If you want to sail in creeks and rivers then definately not the boat for you (Sweden 41)

 

[Genoa]

I'm happy with 1 metre ..... actually 2 x 1 metre, I suppose. Anything else would be too much. :encouragement:

I have been considering an FP Orana! - Just about 50% to expensive, but the draught is a definite plus. - Chartering a cat in Croatia in 3 weeks to see how we get on.

 

[Quandary]

Having done nearly all my sailing in Ireland and Scotland I find this 'shallow draught' idea hard to fathom and I am baffled by west coast boats with bilge keels.
I would not feel any more comfortable anywhere I like to go with 1.5m. rather than 2.5m. I start to fret if it is less than 5m.
The Ovni flat bottom, run up beach and park idea sounds attractive but I can only think of a couple of places I would be bothered to do it.
All this changes of course when my home berth suffers a once in 2 decade drought and runs out of water.

 

[RichardS]

Chartering a cat in Croatia in 3 weeks to see how we get on.

Excellent. Which boat? Where are you chartering from? Marina Agana?

Richard

 

[lpdsn]

Sailed a few times on a boat with a 3.3m keel. She could carry a lot of sail. The motion was pretty uncomfortable however and there was a story that once a lift out failed because the hoist couldn't raised her high enough to get the keel over the lip of the dock.

I reckon I'm in agreement with Quandry that 2.5m is more reasonable.

 

[lpdsn]

We had to plough our own furrow in Howth at low tide for an early departure. I can't say that there are too many places where we can't go that bother me. We do, perhaps, have to take a less cautious view as to depth under keel. If you want to sail in creeks and rivers then definately not the boat for you (Sweden 41)

I thought they'd dredged Howth has it silted up again? Used to have to go in the fish harbour during regattas and you'd sometimes see boats going in to the marina with the full crew hanging onto the shrouds to heel them enough to reduce the draught.

 

[Genoa]

Excellent. Which boat? Where are you chartering from? Marina Agana?

Richard

Yep. Agana, with the moorings on a 40.

 

[Seajet]

When I had a boat with 5' draft I found that about on the limit for the Solent, as some marinas like Southsea and Emsworth for a start have sills.

 

[dunedin]

Clearly there are no absolute right or wrong answers for this one. But in our case, with similar cruising ground ambitions, we set a limit of 2m draft for a boat of 11-12m.

In many areas of France and Scandinavia there are enough boats with 2m draft that we were rarely trailblazing the channels into the harbours, but often amongst the deepest boats there so limited numbers of berths, and with water stands low some harbours could be out of bounds.
Finding a shallow patch of soft mud on a rising tide may not be much of an issue. But finding a shallow patch of solid rock in tideless waters is not amusing.

 

[wully1]

Looking for a boat to cruise in Scandinavia I didn’t want bigger than 35 ft and 2 meter draught - a lot of places are shallow with small box berths.Ended up with 36 ft and 1.7 which will do us nicely. Sailing her home out of the single figure depths in the Solent was a nerve wracking experience for us!

If I ever get a bigger boat the max draught would be 2.2 but even here on the deep west coast of Scotland that depth can be a handicap as I found out with my second boat..

 

[RichardS]

Yep. Agana, with the moorings on a 40.

A great place to start from with everything you could want within short sails or longer days as you prefer, with the wind from the right direction. I usually find that if we decide on our destination before we start, then the destination we have chosen is mostly to windward!

Our boat is also an ex-Agana Moorings. If you're used to monohulls you'll probably find that it seems so large in the marina that you'll be wondering whether an Orana might be a bit too much. Once you get out to sea, the size seems to dwindle.

The shallow draft means that you'll never be able to ground her .... unless you're really trying. :ambivalence:

Richard

 

[Genoa]

A great place to start from with everything you could want within short sails or longer days as you prefer, with the wind from the right direction. I usually find that if we decide on our destination before we start, then the destination we have chosen is mostly to windward!
[\QUOTE]
Any recommendations for a quiet swimming bay?

Our boat is also an ex-Agana Moorings. If you're used to monohulls you'll probably find that it seems so large in the marina that you'll be wondering whether an Orana might be a bit too much. Once you get out to sea, the size seems to dwindle.
[\QUOTE]
How did you find dealing with a ‘corporate seller? Did the boat meet expectations post a charter life?

 

[RichardS]

Any recommendations for a quiet swimming bay?

How did you find dealing with a ‘corporate seller? Did the boat meet expectations post a charter life?

If you want a bay which is close to Agana for perhaps a quick getaway on your arrival day then just 7M south of Agana is Drevnik Veli. There is a bay called Krknjas at the very SE corner which you can get into the shallows if it's not too busy, and it will be getting quieter after the end of August. When the sun is out the shallows are a lovely blue colour because of the sandy bottom. Further out it's shingle but still good holding. There is one restaurant there but it is one of the best in the islands ... you can see their dinghy dock in the photo. Obviously don't cut through the inlet to the east past the restaurant (at the bottom of the photo) as it's too shallow, even for a cat.

We bought the boat through the Moorings ownership scheme so we owned it and named her from brand new and spent several free holidays on her every year until it was handed to us full time after 5 years. We spent so much time on her during those 5 years that we were able to make sure she was kept in A1 condition so at the end of the 5 years we were effectively handed a boat in excellent condition for about half the price of a new one .... and had enjoyed 5 years of free cruising holidays several times a year in the meantime.

Richard