How can I avoid Bl**dy Surveyors??!!!

[mark_turner]

I want to buy a small boat costing about £2k.

Insurance companies now seem to INSIST on having a survey. I am told EVERY 4 to 5 Years!!

Survey cost will be £270 to tell me what??? I am quite capable of knowing the condition of an old boat. I don't need to be told that there is a bit of osmosis that I can see for myself, and know will never cause a problem in the time I am likely to have the boat.

Do they have ANY evidence that old boats are a greater insurance risk? I would have thought that there is much more risk in the case from those who have more money than sense, buy an expensive inappropriate 'toy' then take it out on the water in inappropriate conditions and places. Certainly my experience - Like the time that I had to tow a brand new massive great RIB with a 225HP engine because he hadn't realised which way the fuel cock worked so the engine conked out leaving him drifting towards rocks a few hundred yards from the harbour entrance.

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[pcv]

Not all insurance companys want a servey, it seems it depends on the boat, price year mass production ect ect.

As for people out their who dont know what there doing, lets not just condemn them. Sure thy put their lives and the lives of others at risk, make headlines in the cr*p press but now more people have more money and want to enjoy boats of all types. Why not think of ways to to help not condemn.

Free basic training through collages or redirect sum of the money stolen off boats by being charged to ancher.





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[mirabriani]

You might consider that the survey will give you ;-
1 Peace of mind
2 A "lever" with which to adjust the purchase price
3 Possibly a lower insurance premium.
4 A list of items which will need attention in order of priority
5 Probably four years before the insurance co demands another survey
6 Some of the above may well save you the cost of the survey. In addition you will have the benefit of a "friendly person" with whom to dicuss your purchase.
All of which in my opinion is worth the fee
Regards and good luck Briani

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[graham]

Most insurance companies will do third party without a survey.

If you keep the boat in a marina they may insist that your insurance includes cover for wreck removal incase your boat sinks in their berth.

There was a thread about this a while ago,some insurance companies will do third party with wreck removal.



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[cliff]

You can't - they are like taxes and death - unavoidable.

Having said that I'd rather pay a good surveyor and know what I have than pay this pillock broon. Death, well not much I can do about that except enjoy while I can.

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Stay put when I hit you!

 

[Lori]

Basic Boat Insurance Co. will do 3rd party with no survery. It's about 60 quid but there is no total loss. You may consider that if you lose your boat you will lose all that love and money that went into it.

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[FullCircle]

Mark
they arent helping much.
I am with you. I buy my boats in the 3k range ,and I know what is wrong with them.
3rd Party for my Limbo 22ft last year was 75 quid on a swinging mooring.
Fully Comp this year for my Jouet 23ft, Swinging Mooring inc All Northern European waters, 150 quid excess (250 abroad) was 155 pounds and pence.
No survey. From DRL Marine 01692 583351, speak to Darren Lewis.Agreed values on Dinghies, Personal stuff etc.
No involvement, just someone who listened to what I wanted......


Jim

<hr width=100% size=1>Second Chance - First Love. Engine fired up first time, launching next week now!!

 

[andyball]

Bishop Skinner insured cheap'ish old boat for us w/o survey

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[mark_turner]

Thanks for Responses Re:HowcanIavoidSurveyors?!!

Thanks for all the responses and:

The thing that concerns me is that the brokers seem to be taking an easy option by just insisting that we have surveys without taking it up with the insurance companies. And that insurance companies seem to have started to put this requirement into the proposal as an easily assumed way of reducing their risk BUT WITHOUT thinking it through. Does it really reduce their risk? I suspect not. A general survey may be OK on the day it is done, but in the hostile environment in which our boats operate, it does not mean that the boat will remain seaworthy until the next ‘enforced’ general survey. Some things need looking at much more frequently than every three four or five years. Others do not. And is everything included in a general survey. I am not sure that the engine is for example and this could be quite important – especially for those without sails!

A competent and conscience owner/skipper is by far the most important factor in safety at sea (and hence insurance risk) in my opinion. If there is any aspect about the seaworthiness of my boat that I am not happy about I will investigate it immediately, obtaining appropriate advice from suitably qualified and experienced sources where necessary, and rectify.

Having looked further SOME brokers are even suggesting that we have our boats surveyed at THREE yearly intervals. This could become a very substantial cost and inconvenience.

I have tried the three insurance brokers suggested in this string and in PMs and found that just DRL are able to obtain fully comprehensive quotations for boats over 20 years and above 20 ft LOA without a survey. They say, however, that this is becoming increasingly difficult. Is this the way we want things to go?

With regard to the comment about helping newcomers to the sport. Whether they have money or not, of course I do not condemn them and of course I would do all that I can to help them to get as much pleasure as we all do from sailing as safely as possible.


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[Nick_Pam]

Confused

Now I'm puzzled....
I just bought an 8 year old Dehler and insured it through Bishop Skinner at a reasonable price (compared to some of the quotes I got!!) and they never asked for a copy of the survey, even though I'd had a full pre-purchase one done.
I asked them if providing a copy would reduce the insurance and they told me it would make no difference.
Insurance is full cover, with replacement/guaranteed value, listed additional items etc.
Hmmmm........
Nick

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[andyball]

Re: Confused

think the "boats over 20 years" mentioned is the key point.

My exp. with bishop skinner & an unknown age, but over 20yrs boat was only a 16'- fully comp. no problem for that.

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[Guest]

Basic Boat Insurance

Fixed price 3rd party insurance without survey ..... :

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.basic-boat.com/>http://www.basic-boat.com/</A>



<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ... and of course Yahoo groups :
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gps-navigator/

 

[Mollari]

Re: Basic Boat Insurance

I looked at purchasing a seamaster sailer recently it's price was incredibly low due to the dreaded "O", The surveyor told me that it was riddled and the entire hull would have to be peeled, Upon closer inspection he hadn't even scraped antifoul away from the hull to take readings.

I have cancelled the cheque and got a second opinion, guess what? the hull is in suprisingly good condition for the year with moisture reading around 2-3 (Sov A)

Surveyors need to be closely monitored as there are a few bad apples out there who have ruined my faith in them completely.

I used to be a Marine Surveyor in South Africa on returning to the water in this country I will probably consider doing my own survey, I have the relevant qualifications, endorsed by Lloyds of London, however my tickets are not recognised by insurance companies in this country. Who is to blame, The Insurance Companies, the Surveyor or the Government?

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://mysite.freeserve.com/leisure_marine_prep>http://mysite.freeserve.com/leisure_marine_prep</A>

 

[Guest]

Re: Basic Boat Insurance

<<<I will probably consider doing my own survey, I have the relevant qualifications, endorsed by Lloyds of London>>>>

Makes no odds - as you are not accepted for survey of your own craft for Insurance etc. OK - you can do it for your own information and asessment to buy etc.
I have this problem all the time and have to employ another independent of my business etc.

There are a few company's who will insure without survey - BUT if they give comprehensive cover - there is usually a clause in the policy that takes care of that and protects the Underwriter !! Basic Boat is 3rd party and does not have such clauses ....

I am not connected to Basic Boat other than I changed to their cover this year as I was unable to return to UK in time for Survey for renewal with my regular brokers .... I am very happy with their straight forward plain english cover.


<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ... and of course Yahoo groups :
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gps-navigator/

 

[oldharry]

Insurers are not there for Charitable purposes. They are in it to make money, so the safer you and your boat are, the more profit they are going to make. Its common sense from their point of view to ensure there are no defects which will increase the risk of a claim and reduce their profits!

Because its a quick way for them to check what sort of state your boat is in without costing them a penny, its only surprising that they dont always insist on some sort of inspection before agreeing insurance terms.

But whether the survey will be worth the paper it is written on is another matter altogether. Its a bit like MOT on the car - all it does is to say that on the day it was inspected, certain essential parts were working properly, but it provides no guarantee that there is not some other major defect.

I service my own vehicles ,so there is nothing the MOT test will tell me about the state they are in. Surveyors can very rarely tell me anything about my boat that I do not already know, but I see it as part of the price of ensuring that I do not lose a great deal more money if things go badly pearshaped afloat.

That doesnt mean I like paying for it though, and I will always query it and shop around if an insurer starts demanding a costly full survey. There are cheaper options that insurers can sometimes be pushed to accept, like a boat builders or boatyard report, or a briefer form of survey.

Unfortunately though he who pays the piper, calls the tune.




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[yoda]

Try GJW Direct. They may want an initial survey but they have told me because my boat is low value that they will not ask for follow up ones. About every 3 years I have to submit a written report on the boat's condition. Seems fair to me.

Yoda

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[marina95]

I spoke with Darren Lewis today. His service is an absolute revelation and I have now received an offer for insuring my boat, a 1979 Westery GK29 based in Greek waters fully comprehensive for an unbeatable price.

I would thoroughly recommend a call to them if you're looking to arrange cover. As previously stated this is a broker that listens and is flexible in proposing the best cover.

I have no connection with DRL Marine other than that of a very happy camper!!

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